thentian

Thanks!

One thing I'm noticing right away is that you are never quoting what was said by whom, when and where. That needs to be in there according the rules.

ETA: I think it would be a good idea if you separated the different points and made room for your own comments, as well as the verses each point is taken from. E.g:

(1) Mary Magdalena, Mary Mother etc etc
*(Gospel, Chapter,Verse)
*(Comments)

(2)

Do as you will, of course, but IMO that would make it all much clearer!

dr lazer blast

Actually I did, but atheos said that was against the rules, so I just took it all out.

http://iidb.infidels.org/vbb/showpos...7&postcount=43

1. Who was there?

Mary Magdalene, Mary mother of James, and Salome, and Joanna (corrected by Myth)

Mat 28:1, Mar 16:1, Luk 24:1, John 20:1

2. Why were they there?

To anoint the body of Jesus with spices.

Mar 16:1, Luk 24:1

3. What happened next? they encountered a problem with the guards and the stone blocking the tomb

They saw the guards standing by the tome, and the stone blocking the way, and they asked amongst themselves who's going to roll the stone away?

Mar 16:3

4. How did the stone get moved?
An angel caused an earthquake, moving the stone and killing the guards, after the earthquake they saw the stone had been moved.

Mat 28:2, mar 16:4, Luk 24:2, John 20:1

5. What happened next? they walked into the tomb
They all entered the tomb.

Mar 16:4, Luk 24:3,

6. What happened next? inside the tomb they found 2 angels and no remains of Jesus
After entering the tomb they saw 2 angels, and no remains of Jesus.

Mar 16:5, luk 24:3-4,

7. What happened next? One of the angels spoke to them
An angel speaks to them and tells them that Jesus has risen, and to go tell the disciples about it

Mat 28:6-7, Mar 16:6-7, Luk 24:6-7

8. What happened next? Mary Magdalene went to go tell Peter and the other disciple
Mary magdalene went to tell Peter and the other disciple(she went by herself, mary mother of James did not accompany her), Peter and the other disciple ran to the tomb, saw there was no remains of Christ, and went back home, while mary stayed at the tomb, she saw the 2 angels, then she saw Jesus, then she ran to where the other disciples were.

John 20:2-17

9. The events in #9 (this one) are happening during the events of #8
Mary mother of James, and Salome went to go tell the other disciples (mary magdalene didn't go with them, she went separately to get peter and the other disciple) and on the way Jesus appeared to them (after He appeared to Mary magdalena) and they ran to the house where the disciples were.

10. What happens next? Mary magdelena, Mary mother of James and Salmoe all arrive at the house of the disciples

All the women arrive at the house of the disciples at around the same time and tell the stories of what happened.

Mar 16:13, Luk 24:10, John 20:18

Sightings are all separate events

Jesus showed Himself to Mary Magdelena first (jhon 20:14)
Jesus showed Himself to Mary Mother of James and Salome (mat 28:9)
Jesus showed Himself to the 2 people in the country ( Mar 16:12) the story of the 2 people in the country is detailed in luke 24:13-33
Jesus showed Himself to the 11 (Jhon 20:9, Mar 16:14)
Jesus showed Himself to Thomas (Jhon 20:26)
Jesus showed Himself to to the 12 and apostles (Acts 1:3-12)
Jesus showed Himself to Cephas (1 Corinthians 15:5)
Jesus showed Himself to the 12 (1 Corinthians 15:5)
Jesus showed Himself to the head of 500 (1 Corinthians 15:6)
Jesus showed Himself to James separately from the 12 (1 Corinthians 15:6)
Jesus showed Himself to the apostles (1 Corinthians 15:6)
Jesus showed Himself to Paul (1 Corinthians 15:8)

Clarifications.
Luke 24:12 is speaking in past tense.


.

Why does Jhon only talk about Mary Magdelena? I think this further proves the point that Mary Magdelena went off on her own, because it is basically telling about her events during the resurrection.

thentian

I think Atheos' post was more about your narrative not yet being a complete narrative, but that it -so far, at least- only answered a few selected questions. It does not yet contain, for example, what was said by whom at which point.

It is possible that John is sort of writing to supplement Luke, I guess (if we assume that John was written last, which most(?) scholars do). And Luke probably had a copy of Mark or had read it (according to scholars who cite internal evidence in Luke).

Amaleq13

Your harmonization must avoid inconsistencies and contradictions in order to be "plausible". Your depiction of Mary being joyful in response to hearing Jesus is alive is inconsistent with her subsequent sole concern about the location of his dead body.

I have. Specifically, your reading of John 20:2 appears to lack legitimacy. We've seen that even a Christian pastor agrees that, prior to recognizing Jesus, Mary thinks he is dead and his body has been moved. There is no indication she even suspects he might have risen from the dead.

Any harmonization that places these scenes after Mary learns Jesus is alive will be equally implausible.

This is a very weak argument from silence. Do you only reject those when you think your opponent is using one?

John 20:2ff describes Mary as solely concerned about the location of Jesus' dead body. There is not the slightest suggestion of any other consideration. What you suggest is simply not supported by the text.

Straw man. I never said that nor implied it. What you should have taken from my posts is that your harmonization needs to be supported by the actual texts it purports to summarize.

thentian

I think holy spirit must mean something like Chartreuse. :Cheeky:

Kharakov

Just so you know, at the time you wrote this, I was still wasted from the night before. And last night was weird, but cool.

thentian

Did you write something while you were full of the spirit? Can we look at it if so? Maybe it is inspired! :Cheeky:

dr lazer blast

hey a repsone without a fallacy Im so excited!!!

we don't know how mary reacted, all we know is she departed with fear and joy, so saying mary stating mary even reacted in the first place is an assumption, we don't know how she reacted, there is no information going either way.

I am asserting that she did not believe the angels though.

WOW another post with no fallacies, this must be some sort of record, Nice.
*hugs amaleq13*

sschlichter

There is a big difference between missing information and un-necessary information.


As far as inspiration:

Paul explains Scripture is inspired (God-breathed)

2 Tim 3:16 Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 2 Tim 3:17 that the person dedicated to God may be capable and equipped for every good work.

Peter includes Paul's writings as scripture.

2 Pe 1:21
for no prophecy was ever borne of human impulse; rather, men carried along by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

2 Pe 3:15
And regard the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as also our dear brother Paul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him,
2 Pe 3:16
speaking of these things in all his letters. Some things in these letters are hard to understand, things the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they also do to the rest of the scriptures.

thentian

The gospels were not written when Paul wrote to Timothy. Should we take it that he meant his own letters? I'm quite sure he was talking about the Torah and the Prophets here.

I should probably read 2 Peter before answering, but in the first instance Peter appears to be talking about prophecies (from the OT?), and in the second... well, to say that someone is talking according to the wisdom given to him isn't IMO the same as saying he is inspired by God. (Rather, it seems a little derogatory.)