DCHindley

Like everything that has to do with the DSS, even this issue is super charged. Stephen Goranson for one, a (university?) librarian who has some language proficiency, is extremely agressive in his position.

The problem, IMHO, is that Philo and Josephus have presented an idealized, and perhaps sanitized, picture of these "Essenes" for their non-Jewish readers. Both of these men were proud of their ethnic descent and wanted to present their bretheren in the most positive light they could, using terms that their readers would be familiar with.

So they were not going to portray Jewish sects in manners that could be interpreted as "barbaric." Josephus, even in the case of the "Fourth Philosophy" that drove the Jewish war against Rome, presents those who adhered to it as essentially Pharisees who had misinterpreted "ancient prophesies" from Jewish sacred scriptures.

These portrayals probably precede Philo and Josephus, although it has been suggested that Pliny the Elder may have toured the region AFTER the war and was actually presenting the "tour guide" version based on what Josephus had said. "See, we're not all war-like and anti-foreigner like some folks say." Then the guiide points to some mud brick buildings in the distance beside the palms of a small oasis and continues: "Why, over there are some of the Essenes, who live a quiet life of contemplation here in the quiet of the desert! Over on your right you can see Cleopatra's estate. Anyone care for a fig?"

DCH

Sarai

Hi DCH, thank you for this reference. I'm not familiar with the gentleman, can you give me the Reader's Digest version of his opinion?

I agree with you completely about the "idealized" and "sanitized" depiction. I try to keep in mind that all these ancient sources had axes to grind and did so just as diligently as authors today, but it is sometimes hard for me to ferret out the nature of their apologetics.

Now that's an image!

Warmly,
Sarai

maryhelena

Hi, Sarai

Wow, that's great...........
I'll be looking out for your posts then......
Regards
maryhelena

spin

How many priests were there do you think among the Pharisees?

There was an article in the Revue de Qumran from the 1960s I believe which attempted to catalog the number of hypothesized etymologies for "Essene". No-one knows where it comes from. Anyone who says s/he does is fooling themselves.


spin

avi

and spin replied:
Unfortunately, the online Greek dictionaries which I have consulted do not include "essene".
Not much better luck with
Revue de Qumran ostensibly available to borrow, according to the link, and here can be purchased, but only issues dating from mid 1980's.

As concerns the etymology of the Greek word for "essene", isn't it more important to identify the Hebrew word for this Jewish sect? I understand that Philo and Josephus both wrote in Greek, but I was under the impression, perhaps incorrect, that Pliny the Elder wrote in Latin, or more precisely, that his only extant work Natural History is a collection of articles, an encyclopedia, in Latin, based often on other Roman "authorities", written in Latin, not Pliny's own first hand investigation, with some important exceptions, for example his first hand exposure to gold mining in Spain. The link above asserts that his reference to Greek art depended upon Latin authors, implying lack of comfort with Greek. It would be interesting to obtain a reference to Pliny's text on the essenes. Is "essene" in Pliny's Latin text, presented as a Latin word, or as a Greek word? Is there any evidence that any of these three authors visited Qumran, or did they all rely upon hearsay? Since Pliny made extensive use of others' writings, it would be interesting to compare Pliny's Latin text with Philo's Greek account of the Essenes.

spin

It's been a long time since I read the article, but a few suggestions include derivation from the name Jesse, the father of David, and from the Greek word for "holy", osios, which reflects one form of the name Essene, which is represented in English as Ossean. There were many more and just as convincing. David Hindley mentioned a Stephen Goranson, who has proposed that the source is the Hebrew word for "do/make", ($H (AYIN SHIN HE), which can be seen in the phrase "doers of the law" "'osey ha-Torah".


spin

Huon

Revue de Qumran Tome II/3. june 1960
Vermes G. The Etymology of "Essenes"

http://www.nelc.ucla.edu/faculty/sch...ss/essenes.pdf

Sarai

Wow, you all have been busy! Feast-time fast approaches and I should be cooking already, but this is just much more fun than making kugel. (Not as tasty, but much more fun!)
Hi MaryHelena, if there’s something specific you’d like me to watch for, I’d be happy to do so. Just let me know.
Hi Spin, first I should probably tell you that I’m working from the hypothesis that the masters from Javneh and Usha are the “heirs” (so to speak) of the Pharisees. I’m not married to that theory, but it is a place to start. I can’t really estimate the number of priests that were Pharisees, but given that there are masters identified in the Mishnah and Tosefta as priests, I think there were some present and the early Tannaitic period was essentially a struggle between the priestly and non-priestly factions. I also find it odd that two of the four subjects of the Pharisees greatest concern are priestly; namely proper tithing and ritual purity.

I tend to be a “follow the money” sort of person and I find the Pharisaic fixation on tithing suspicious. What did they stand to gain from increased tithing? In addition, I suspect there might be some sort of connection during the Herodian & Roman periods between some of the priesthood and Bet Shammai. I think it likely that the priesthood had its own set of halakhic decisions since they had been the authority for many generations, and I suspect that some of that is preserved in the decisions of Bet Shammai.
Thank you so much, Huon! That’s a fascinating article. I especially find the Greek term esseoen for “oracle” and applied to the High Priest’s breastplate interesting. I hadn’t heard that one before.
Hi, Avi. I do agree it’s important to learn the Hebrew for the sect, but I suspect the term is completely unrelated to the Hebrew, or Aramaic for that matter. So my hope was that the etymology of the Greek term might give us a clue to their identity in the Semitic texts. Unfortunately, the word “Essene” seems to be as mysterious as the Essenes themselves.
Good question about Pliny’s use of Greek. I’m completely outside my wheelhouse on that one. According to the article Huon provided, Pliny may have been with Vespasian, and so might have seen the Ein Gedi settlement personally…though that’s just a “maybe”. Josephus claims to have been an adept, but modern scholars reject his claim as tendentious. I don’t think Philo makes any claim to firsthand knowledge of the them, though he may have had firsthand knowledge of the Theraputae.

Warmly,
Sarai

andrewcriddle

Pliny_the_Elder

Perseus

Andrew Criddle

DCHindley

In a nutshell, he thinks it is plain as day that it is derived from the Hebrew word for "do-er" (i.e., of the Law) and anyone who disagrees is mentally unstable.

http://www.duke.edu/~goranson/Essenes_&_Others.pdf

DCH