Freethought & Rationalism Archive

dzim77 · 10-19-2006, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenesisNemesis

Hi, I've had a question that's been on my mind for some time. I'm a naturalist evil nazi communistic marxist Atheist, and I was wondering something. Why didn't Jesus tell us exactly when He was going to come? What did He have to lose? To the moderators: would this be better in General Religious Discussions?

The core of Jesus' teaching about his second coming is
1. That it is a certainty that we can bank on
2. That we should have an attitude of being prepared and expecting his return. (like the faithful tenants, the virgins prepared with oil...)

One thing this does is to instill hope, faith, patience, and a sense of urgency in his followers. I assume you will say this is a sham to produce those attitudes in his followers... but another possibility is that it is actually true and that God designed it as such to develop hope, patience, faith, and urgency in his followers.

angela2 · 10-19-2006, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by post tenebras lux

But why shouldn't we know?

What did Jesus gain by being vague, was he being deceptive to his audience? :huh:

Non-responsive

angela2 · 10-19-2006, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by post tenebras lux

Hi Tigers!, I noticed that you didn't answer GenesisNemesis's questions and I wondered if you'd noticed that too?

We both know that Jesus is held to have said your quoted verse, but why? Why didn't Jesus say exactly when he would return and what did he have to lose (if he had said exactly when he would return)? Was his vagueness because he was pulling a 'fast one' on his then listeners when he said "24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled"? :huh:

Different question. Start a new thread.

post tenebras lux · 10-19-2006, 08:37 AM

angela2: whilst I agree that asking Tigers! if s/he had noticed that s/he had failed to answer GenesisNemesis's questions is a 'different question' I hardly think it merits a whole new thread for itself.

GenesisNemesis's questions themselves were contained in the OP and so you couldn't have been refering to those. My question was basically just a run-on: GenesisNemesis asked "What did He (Jesus) have to lose?" whilst I asked "What did He (Jesus) have to gain by being vague?" or words to that effect.

Doesn't sound like new thread material to me - I wonder why it sounds like new thread material to you. Care to explain angela2? :huh:

Imnotspecial · 10-19-2006, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angela2

Secondly, because having in the back of our minds the thought that Jesus's coming could be imminent helps us keep the things of the world in perspective.

Yeah,
that's why I had so little fun at carneval when I was a teenager. I was always plagued with the thought: What if Jesus came back right now. Not that anybody did anything particularly wrong - "just had more fun than a human being ought to be allowed to have." (Rush Limbaugh quote)

ThorsHammer · 10-19-2006, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angela2

I think of the Second Coming as consistent with Christian understanding of time as linear. Jesus Christ is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and end of time.

Jesus did say the Kingdom is among us, but he also said he would return. In order to accomodate both, I think of the kingdom as already and not yet. Jesus is present among us, but he has not yet come to roll up the heavens, as the psalmist writes.

I don't see anything particularly harmful in that. I think there are benefits in remembering that we ought not to sleep while waiting for Jesus's return. First of all because we must work while there is still light. Secondly, because having in the back of our minds the thought that Jesus's coming could be imminent helps us keep the things of the world in perspective.

Would you please clarify some of your statements so that I can better understand you, OK? (1) What exactly do you mean by "the Alpah and Omega"? (2) What and where is the kingdom/heaven?

angela2 · 10-19-2006, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by post tenebras lux

angela2: whilst I agree that asking Tigers! if s/he had noticed that s/he had failed to answer GenesisNemesis's questions is a 'different question' I hardly think it merits a whole new thread for itself.

I think you don't know much about the interpetation of that passage. Anyway do what you like, but I'm not diverting this thread.

.

angela2 · 10-19-2006, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThorsHammer

Would you please clarify some of your statements so that I can better understand you, OK? (1) What exactly do you mean by "the Alpah and Omega"?

Alpha and omega are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet. All three references to this phrase come from Revelation.

Re 1:8
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

Re 21:6
He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life.

Re 22:13
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

Quote:

(2) What and where is the kingdom/heaven?

Jesus Christ, alive in this world and in eternity

Tigers! · 10-19-2006, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by post tenebras lux

Hi Tigers!, I noticed that you didn't answer GenesisNemesis's questions and I wondered if you'd noticed that too?

Yes I noticed it. Congratulations on your perceptiveness. :Cheeky:

Quote:

Originally Posted by post tenebras lux

We both know that Jesus is held to have said your quoted verse, but why? Why didn't Jesus say exactly when he would return

The biblical quote given says that God the Father, not God the Son, knows the day & hour. Christ (the Son) will return the Father tells him it is time to do so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by post tenebras lux

and what did he have to lose (if he had said exactly when he would return)?

He had nothing to lose by saying the time if he knew it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by post tenebras lux

Was his vagueness because he was pulling a 'fast one' on his then listeners when he said "24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled"? :huh:

Vagueness was because the time was not revealed to him. Vagueness does not necessarily indicate deceptiveness, it can also signify lack of knowledge.

Tigers! · 10-19-2006, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThorsHammer

Would you please clarify some of your statements so that I can better understand you, OK? (1) What exactly do you mean by "the Alpah and Omega"?

In English we could use the terminology of A to Z. It just signifies completeness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThorsHammer

(2) What and where is the kingdom/heaven?

Heaven is God's home, the location of his throne. The kingdom of heaven is everywhere God can be. It can be within us and without.

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10-19-2006, 08:37 AM	#14
post tenebras lux Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Republic and Canton of Geneva Posts: 5,756	angela2: whilst I agree that asking Tigers! if s/he had noticed that s/he had failed to answer GenesisNemesis's questions is a 'different question' I hardly think it merits a whole new thread for itself. GenesisNemesis's questions themselves were contained in the OP and so you couldn't have been refering to those. My question was basically just a run-on: GenesisNemesis asked "What did He (Jesus) have to lose?" whilst I asked "What did He (Jesus) have to gain by being vague?" or words to that effect. Doesn't sound like new thread material to me - I wonder why it sounds like new thread material to you. Care to explain angela2? :huh:

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