ChandraRama

I like to know how many christian documents are there before the Jewish war of 60s.

What is the proof that they really are before the jewish war?

WishboneDawn

Paul's epistles? I haven't seen much doubt that he was writing between about 48 CE and 62 CE.

Peter Kirby

You spoil the question with your followup. Proof is not to be had here.

You also don't explain why the question interests you, what's special about the time marker you've placed (the Jewish War in the 60s). I would say it's an important event, but I'd like to know what the significance is in your mind in relation to the question of the Christian texts and their time of production.

In any case, just two of the texts here would be the Letter of the Hebrews and First Clement. You can look up the relevant evidence (and counterarguments).

regards,
Peter Kirby

ChandraRama

Thanks. The question is related to the Mack's book on Who wrote the New testament. I like to see if there is any evidence on the prewar jesus movements. (in a roundabout way)

robto

Peter, I'm surprised you include 1 Clement here, as your website dates that document 80-140 AD. Is this something you've discussed elsewhere? I'd be very interested to read it.

FreezBee

Yes, no one has ever, to the best of my knowledge, claimed 1 Clement to be an early document. From its own text, it must have been written some time after the death of Paul, so it cannot be extremely early.

Some claim that the gospels, especially Mark, could be pre-war, but people claim a lot of things, you know :huh:


- FreezBee

Chris Weimer

Yes, 1 Clement is definitely post-war - I've not seen one scholar yet argue for it, though nothing amazes me these days.

In any case, the epistles of Paul, authentic and perhaps some pseudonymous, were pre70, as it seems is James, Hebrews, and various sources of the gospels.

robto

Well, I'm pretty sure JAT Robinson dates it early, in Redating the New Testament, so that's one. IIRC, he bases the date on the Temple references - this seems like a strong argument to me, since the reasons for a late date are so weak. So that's why I was interested in Peter's take on it.

Peter Kirby

1 Clement is pre-war (60s). Multiple scholars have argued for this (not just JATR), but I was ultimately persuaded by the arguments of Michael Turton, even though Turton himself has backtracked. I think I'll just pull a fast one and say "see the archives." It's been debated before.

regards,
Peter Kirby

Chris Weimer

As I said, nothing amazes me. Hey Peter, do you have a link to the old thread?