Freethought & Rationalism Archive

douglas · 03-07-2007, 05:21 PM

I was reading Dr. Tabor's responses to some questions on the Discovery Channel and this quote caught my eye:

Quote:

Simcha is convinced that the Beloved Disciple is the son. I am not so sure, as I still stay with the idea it is James, but I think we need to look. There is also that young man who runs away naked at the arrest of Jesus, only in Mark. Strange story. He was with the group, at the last supper and arrest. Who is he?

I don't know how this could be anything more than pure speculation, but is there circumstantial evidence in the gospels that lend support to the idea that the streaker in Mark could be a reference to Jesus' son? Could this be Mark's way of telling his readers that Jesus' son went into hiding, shedding any connection with his family, immediately after his arrest?

What say you!

p.s. Was this brought up in the Davinci Code? I'm the only person on earth who hasn't read the book.

fool · 03-07-2007, 05:44 PM

Is the streaker a naked child?

douglas · 03-07-2007, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fool

Is the streaker a naked child?

Mark refers to him as a "young man"

Quote:

50And having left him they all fled; 51 and a certain young man was following him, having put a linen cloth about [his] naked body, and the young men lay hold on him, 52 and he, having left the linen cloth, did flee from them naked.

S.C.Carlson · 03-07-2007, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by douglas

p.s. Was this brought up in the Davinci Code? I'm the only person on earth who hasn't read the book.

No, in The Da Vinci Code the child of Jesus was a daughter.

Stephen

Malachi151 · 03-07-2007, 06:37 PM

Here is my answer, and I believe that it supports my JM view, which is that GMark is an allegory about the destruction of Judea in 70 CE.

Quote:

Mark 14:
10 Then Judas Iscariot, who was one of the twelve, went to the chief priests in order to betray him to them. 11When they heard it, they were greatly pleased, and promised to give him money. So he began to look for an opportunity to betray him.

...

43 Immediately, while he was still speaking, Judas, one of the twelve, arrived; and with him there was a crowd with swords and clubs, from the chief priests, the scribes, and the elders. 44 Now the betrayer had given them a sign, saying, ‘The one I will kiss is the man; arrest him and lead him away under guard.’ 45 So when he came, he went up to him at once and said, ‘Rabbi!’ and kissed him. 46 Then they laid hands on him and arrested him. 47 But one of those who stood near drew his sword and struck the slave of the high priest, cutting off his ear. 48 Then Jesus said to them, ‘Have you come out with swords and clubs to arrest me as though I were a bandit? 49 Day after day I was with you in the temple teaching, and you did not arrest me. But let the scriptures be fulfilled.’ 50 All of them deserted him and fled.

51 A certain young man was following him, wearing nothing but a linen cloth. They caught hold of him, 52 but he left the linen cloth and ran off naked.

Quote:

Amos 2:
4 This is what the LORD says:
"For three sins of Judah,
even for four, I will not turn back {my wrath}.
Because they have rejected the law of the LORD
and have not kept his decrees,
because they have been led astray by lies
the lies their ancestors followed,

5 I will send fire upon Judah
that will consume the fortresses of Jerusalem."
Judgment on Israel
6 This is what the LORD says:
"For three sins of Israel,
even for four, I will not turn back {my wrath}.
They sell the righteous for silver,
and the needy for a pair of sandals.

7 They trample on the heads of the poor
as upon the dust of the ground
and deny justice to the oppressed.
Father and son use the same girl
and so profane my holy name.
...

11 I also raised up prophets from among your sons
and Nazirites from among your young men.
Is this not true, people of Israel?"
declares the LORD.

12 "But you made the Nazirites drink wine
and commanded the prophets not to prophesy.

13 "Now then, I will crush you
as a cart crushes when loaded with grain.

14 The swift will not escape,
the strong will not muster their strength,
and the warrior will not save his life.

15 The archer will not stand his ground,
the fleet-footed soldier will not get away,
and the horseman will not save his life.

16 Even the bravest warriors
will flee naked on that day,"
declares the LORD.

Mark 14 starts with Judas (Judea) selling the righteous for silver. They silence Jesus and command him not to prophecy. Jesus says to let the scriptures be fulfilled. The young man flees naked, and the fulfillment being spoken of is the destruction of Judea.

Now, the only thing here that doesn't exactly fit is the fact that its not a warrior, but this is kind of typical of how these references are used, plus a "young man" would be of warrior age.

Here is the thing. I had never even thought about this issue before. Upon seeing this thread I went to my JM article to see what I could find about this passage, and I looked up Amos 2, which is what I have listed as the reference for the Betrayal by Judas, and sure enough, within that same book and chapter, we conclude with the sign of someone fleeing naked.

I also did another search and I don't find any other references to nakedness that seem to apply here. I think its a pretty strong case, a hell of a lot stronger than "it was Jesus' child!"

figuer · 03-07-2007, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by douglas

p.s. Was this brought up in the Davinci Code? I'm the only person on earth who hasn't read the book.

Your pretensions of exclusivity are misplaced. I haven't read the book, nor do I intend to (I don't have time to lose reading bad pop-fiction).

spin · 03-07-2007, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by figuer

I haven't read the book, nor do I intend to (I don't have time to lose reading bad pop-fiction).

Then how do you know it's "bad pop-fiction"?

Spitfire · 03-08-2007, 01:12 AM

The beloved disciple is John.

No idea who the "streaker" could have been, however.

Chili · 03-08-2007, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by figuer

Your pretensions of exclusivity are misplaced. I haven't read the book, nor do I intend to (I don't have time to lose reading bad pop-fiction).

:notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

Chili · 03-08-2007, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by douglas

What say you!

The young man was Christ or the image of Christ since Christ has no existene of being but is the I AM that made Jesus man instead of Jew. The young man will soon be fully man when Jesus gets nailed to the cross.

Notice that Pilate had no man to look at and Jesus had no defense. If you compare this with Luke 23:14, 15 and 22 you will see that Pilate looked at the man instead of the Jew. So with John 18:29, 38, 38. In John 19:7 the Jews said to have their own Law and by this law Jesus-the Jew had to die while Pilate could find no case agains this man.

The young man is John at the foot of the cross.

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03-07-2007, 05:44 PM	#2
fool Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 260	Is the streaker a naked child?

03-08-2007, 01:12 AM	#8
Spitfire Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: The belly of the beast. Posts: 765	The beloved disciple is John. No idea who the "streaker" could have been, however.

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