Johnny Skeptic

Message to Half-Life: If a God exists, if he wanted people to believe that he can predict the future, it would be easy for him to telephathically communicate the same prophecy to everyone in the world, thereby helping to discourage dissent instead of needlessly inviting dissent.

If God wanted people to have faith, he would not give them fulfilled prophecies as tangible, firsthand evidence that he can predict the future.

Sheshbazzar

The "Jewish people" are a diverse lot, ask the same question of half a dozen and you will reap a dozen differing responses, somewhat depending upon what day of the week it is, what phase the moon is in, and what they ate for supper yesterday. "Jewish" homogeneity is a gentile fable.

Half-Life

I see your point but we've already established that some people still would not believe regardless of all the proof in the world.

If every single prophecy in the Bible was 100% true, and verified by every historian of the era, and we had a book Jesus wrote called "My Fulfilled Prophecies and Evidence," some people still would not believe because they are stubborn.

Half-Life

But let's use your George Bush example:

Bush predicts an earthquake would hit Los Angels at precisely 11:25:44 A.M. on June 26, 2008.

if this happens, will people believe Bush is a God? Nope. "He got lucky"

Bush says on June 29 "Fine then, on July 5, 2008, Jose Reyes of the Mets will defeat the Los Angeles Dodgers with a walk off home run in the 12th inning with 1 man out, winning the game 5-4."

Response? "Maybe there's something to this here."

Bush says, "On August 1, 2008, the Iraq war will be over and terrorism will cease to exist."

Response on august 1? Bush can predict the future!

Bush says "On August 30, 2008, Louis Farakkhan will hang himself."
This doesn't come true.

Uh Oh! Now what is our opinion of Bush?

Johnny Skeptic

You did not pay attention to what I said: I said "If a God exists, if he wanted people to believe that he can predict the future, it would be easy for him to telephathically communicate the same prophecy to everyone in the world, thereby helping to discourage dissent instead of needlessly inviting dissent."

The key words are "if he wanted people to believe that he can predict the future." If it is God's intention to convince people to believe that he can predict the future, he could easily convince everyone to believe that he can predict the future by predicting when and where some natural disasters would occur, month, day, and year. If it is not God's intention to try to convince people to believe that he can predict the future, why does he predict the future?

Many Christians claim that if God performed tangible miracles today, skeptics would not accept him. I disagree. If God predicted when and where some natural disasters would occur, month, day, and year, it is probable that some skeptics would become Christians as a result. That is a reasonable assumption since historically, many people have accepted all kinds of outlandish religions based upon a lot less convincing evidence than that. In addition, Nostradamus and Edgar Cayce attracted a lot of followers based upon a lot less convincing evidence than that.

If Jesus had performed thousands of miracles all over the world, surely a lot more people would have become Christians.

Toto

This is entirely hypothetical. There is no such proof, and the people who do not believe in the Bible are motivated by the evidence, not their own internal state.

If there actually were proof of god, I think most people would believe. Certainly all the atheists who used to believe, but stopped believing when they couldn'g find a good reason to believe, would still be believers.

SkepticBoyLee

Bullshit. According to the Bible others could work "miracles". The Egyptians even one uped Moses magic at one point. How could those people be sure that Jesus was Gods son who is his own daddy and creator of the entire universe along with his holy spook all at the same time?

Tuffa Nuff

I think that it is quite reasonable to say that to some extent prophesies tend to be self fulfilling. Since the Jewish people knew of this prophesy, and are devout, it makes sense to me that they would do so, (return to their homeland). I feel a kinship with my own homeland, though I don't live there. Imagine the motivation of a whole people away from their homeland.

In other words suppose, for the sake of discussion, that there is NO god. Then there is no true prophesy. But the Jews, believing that there is a prophesy, and knowing what it is, would be motivated to look forwards to the day they would get their homeland back, and thus be inclined to bring about their return to it. Other parties with influence would also know about this prophesy, and given events of WWII, would also be inclined to lend a hand, regardless that, (for the sake of discussion), no god exists.

In other words, a prophesy and its fulfillment, may say nothing about the insight of the prophet, and in fact it is entirely possible for prophesies to be fulfilled by serendipity. I could make a prophesy, and it could be fulfilled, but I'm not a prophet.

Johnny Skeptic

Would not believe what?

If God telephathically told everyone in the world that he is the God of the Bible, and where the next natural disaster would occur, and it occurred, is it your position that not any skeptics would become Christians as a result?

Why does God predict the future?

Is it your position that God is not able to provide additional evidence that would cause more people to love him and accept him without unfairly interfering with their free will.

JCS

How about once a generation at the very least. :Cheeky: