funinspace

Well I have to agree in general with Spin. However, aspects of some of the earliest miracles defy all common sense, history, archeology, and scientific knowledge. The timeline as provided in Genesis is a wonderful contradiction to discuss. However the "true believers" tend to shy away from even engaging debate on this timeline. Genesis gives a clear timeline from Noah's Flood to the Exodus. A very few may quibble on the date of the Exodus, but the vast majority agree that it would have to be between 1600-1100BC. And per a literal Genesis the flood happened 1052 years earlier. Just look at the lack of any response from people who demand a perfect Bible on this thread:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=90188

I'll even bump it to make sure it's easy to find

inquisitive01

Are there no examples of what Paul said that REQUIRES a current interpretation according to 2004? Spookie Here suggested that a current interpretation was required, but has not provided any specific examples for this line of reasoning as of yet.


By the way, what are you people referring to when you label someone as a Xian?

Magdlyn

Someone who worships X.

XP being the Greek for ChR.

Killjoy

I agree. This is exactly why the OP requested purely internal contradictions. This thread was started in response to an argument in which it was claimed that the very concept of truth does not make sense apart from the Bible. I am guessing (the point did not actually come up) that on this line of reasoning, if the Bible claimed that the external Universe did not exist then that would be enough to prove that the external Universe does not exist. After all a universe that contains nothing but a single Bible is logically possible. However a universe that allows contradictions is logically impossible. So if the Bible can be shown to contain contradictions then this "Bible == Truth" line of agument can be shown for what it is. A real hard case xian might still not be convinced, but for someone who is on the fence it may actually provide some insight.

Peter Kirby

So... was nothing true in 2000 BCE? (Before any part of the Bible was written.)

best,
Peter Kirby

Killjoy

How do we know when the Bible was written? It might be eternal for all we know. (Don't worry, I'm on your side - just playing devil's advocate)

inquisitive01

Let's not forget the following (it would seem that Spookie Here is not going to provide any examples, if there are any, so it's open to anyone):

Joshua Adams

This is just a hunch, but I think no one is answering because we have no idea what the heck "requires a current interpretation" means. Requirements are only meaningful in that they will, once fulfilled, achieve a stipulated goal. What goal are we shooting for in interpreting Paul?

I realize the ambiguity is not your fault, inquisitive, since it wasn't you who brought this up.

Peter Kirby

This is in fact how many Muslims view the Qu'ran, which exists in heaven as a perfect inscription ab aeterno et ad aeternitatem.

I wonder what language(s) such a Christian would assign to the Bible. Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, Latin, German...maybe the King's English?

[Note: For those who believe that the Bible is perfect and immutable, "the Bible" seems to be just a cipher for "the mind of God." Any particular book embossed "The Holy Bible" would only be a human estimation of what that single perfect expression of God's thought contains. But, if you make the Bible into a metaphysical construct, then it is easy just to substitute another term--Plato suggested "the Good," while others might say "Reality"--while retaining all the function desired: something not of this world on which to hang a correspondence theory of truth. Finally, to finish off this note, the idea that a metaphysical object "Truth" is nessary in order to understand what it means for a statement like "I have green eyes" to be true is an obvious error if any common sense is retained.]

In any case, I was assuming that the Christian thought that Moses led the Exodus and that Moses wrote the Pentateuch. Since there was a time before Moses, there was a time without a Bible on Earth. You don't even need the figure of Moses: if we think of the Bible as words written by men under divine guidance (for example, Paul or Amos), then there was no Bible before the creation of mankind.

One would thus have to view the Bible as a kind of urschrift created as a whole, word for word, at the moment of creation, floating between the stars for quite some time, with pieces doled out to the saints as history unfolds.

Such an absurdity reminds me of Douglas Adams...only it's not as funny.

best,
Peter Kirby

inquisitive01

Well, I figured at least Spookie Here would have some idea what "requires a current interpretation" means, since [b]Spookie Here[/i] is the one that suggested this. I dunno.