Freethought & Rationalism ArchiveThe archives are read only. |
11-27-2008, 04:19 PM | #111 | ||||
Moderator - General Religious Discussions
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: New South Wales
Posts: 27,330
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
||||
11-27-2008, 08:48 PM | #112 | |
Contributor
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Falls Creek, Oz.
Posts: 11,192
|
Quote:
The author of "The Acts of Pilate" puts these words into the mouth of Pilate. Why would he do that do you think? Best wishes, Pete |
|
11-27-2008, 10:10 PM | #113 |
Moderator - General Religious Discussions
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: New South Wales
Posts: 27,330
|
|
11-30-2008, 06:36 PM | #114 |
Contributor
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Falls Creek, Oz.
Posts: 11,192
|
|
11-30-2008, 08:01 PM | #115 |
Contributor
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 40,549
|
I gather from the above that this thread is done with, and Pete has not convinced anyone here that Arius wrote any apocryphal Acts?
|
12-02-2008, 03:03 PM | #116 |
Contributor
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Falls Creek, Oz.
Posts: 11,192
|
JSTOR: 'Superstitio' in the "Codex Theodosianus" and the Persecution of the Pagans
...... religion of the Christians by encouraging theological disputes: "The plain and simple religion of the Christians he obscured by a dotard's superstition" |
12-02-2008, 03:24 PM | #117 | ||
Veteran Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 3,058
|
Quote:
Here's the context of Pete's quote: Quote:
|
||
12-02-2008, 04:11 PM | #118 | |
Contributor
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 40,549
|
Quote:
|
|
12-03-2008, 03:49 PM | #119 | |||
Contributor
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Falls Creek, Oz.
Posts: 11,192
|
Quote:
I do not have access to JSTOR. Thanks Jeffrey for the context. Quote:
How "christian" was Constantine? How "christian" was Arius? How "hellenic" was Constantine? How "hellenic" was Arius? Can anyone perceive there are four questions here and not two? The world is a billion shades of grey - it is not black and white. Modern commentors argue over Constantine. Whether or not Constantine actually subscribed to the "christian religion" in an outward sense at all before he knew the end was immanent. So exactly how christian was Constantine? He was an autocrat. What is a fourth century autocratic military general to a modern scholar? And exactly how christian was Arius if at all? He was an ascetic. What's "an ascetic" to a modern scholar? Modern scholars have yet to look at Arius of Alexandria, as something other than an authodox christian. He may have been far from this. He is known to have been the cause of great blasphemy. His writings according to Constantine cause great harm to the authodox. We know that the authodox were searching high and low for all sorts of heretical tractates. What were these? My claim is that his writings are under our eyes, and we do not recognise them for what they are. The apochrypha of the new testament. The Nag Hammadi tractate TAOPATTA - the Acts of Peter and the 12. Mainstream's response: The NT corpus was written in an unkown century by unknown authors in greek for a greek audience as was much of the "earlier" NT apochryphal corpus, except some of that (early tractates) continued to perhaps the late fourth century. The mainstream response is uninspiring. I am only offering an alternative within the bounds of all the evidence. My claim is that the long lost "Songs of Arius" are not in fact long lost, but have been preserved from the fourth century as the (larger bulk of) the new testament apochryphal corpus. When does the coinage of the Roman Emperors cease to patronise Asclepius, the son of Apollo, the son of Zeus? Why did Constantine utterly destroy competing religions including the religion of all the Hellenes and their temples (and in the end libraries)? What resistance is recorded? Eusebius? Best wishes, Pete |
|||
12-03-2008, 05:21 PM | #120 | |||||||||
Moderator - General Religious Discussions
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: New South Wales
Posts: 27,330
|
Quote:
'After the defeat of Licinius in A.D. 324, Constantine was in control of the whole Empire. According to Eusebius, it was then that Constantine issued a law which forbade "the disgusting idolatry performed of old in city and country, so that neither cult statues be erected, oracles (or haruspices) be consulted, or sacrifices performed". This law, cited by Eusebius, is not extant. Given the evidence however, it seems likely that Constantine did pass such a law but that it was a local law, applicable only in parts of the Eastern Empire; Eusebius supports this view, for he records Constantine's actions against pagan shrines only in the Eastern and never in the Western Empire. Indeed, it is the limited and local intent of this law which, according to Barnes, explains its loss and why Eusebius does not cite it verbatim. Moreover, Constantine never legislated against sacrifice in the West, which is why Firmicus Maternus, some ten years later, urges Constantine's sons to do precisely that. Constantine never prohibited paganism per se, in the Latin west, nor did he renounce his position as Pontifex Maximus. However sincere a Christian, Constantine was also a consummate politician, well aware of the ongoing force of paganism and imperial cult, especially in Italy.' Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||||||||
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|