Freethought & Rationalism Archive

premjan · 11-05-2003, 03:55 AM

Beleif in God was societally useful in those times. So terms like "son of God" and "God" can be considered culturally dated terms that no longer mean the same things as they once did, or at least lack the same emotional pull now as then.

southernhybrid · 11-05-2003, 05:12 AM

Why must people who have contributed so much to humanity like for example, Ghandi, and Carl Sagan burn in hell through all eternity when some criminals like the ones who were crucified with you will enjoy eternal bliss simply because they accepted your divinity?

What's so special about blind faith? Why give us a rational mind if we're supposed to suspend it to accept you?

What's up with original sin, and why put the blame on a woman? Don't you realize how much sexism that has perpetuated in the world?

And Jesus, aren't you a little bit ashamed of all the suffering that has gone on in the world due to your teachings? I'm thinking about things like the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials and slavery in colonial America for starters. Again if you had put more emphasis on good works and less on that egotistical idea that you are God and must be obeyed, perhaps your influence would have been more positive and would have actually helped humanity. Is there any chance you might rethink this through a bit more and help us out here?

That blood sacrifice thing has never made a lick of sense to me. Was that your father's idea? What's up with that? It sounds more like something that would appeal to a Satanist, please explain.

Is there any truth in the Gnostic gospels? I know they're not very popular among your followers, but I like the more tolerant, pantheistic Jesus portrayed there. He seemed like a much nicer guy. Do they give a more accurate representation of you and your message? If so, I have a lot more respect for you.

I know you can't answer these questions Rock and that's okay, but these are the types of things that led to my leaving Xianity as a young woman.

Pouye · 11-05-2003, 08:01 PM

Titled, "Suffering, Joy, Pain, Pleasure"

Thanx,

Rock

lpetrich · 11-05-2003, 09:12 PM

Here are questions I would ask:

Why did you get so angry when you discovered that a certain fig tree had not had figs when you were hungry? It was out of season, and you could easily have created some food for yourself, just as you had did with all that bread and fish and with that wine.

What about the Pharisees had made you so angry? Were they really that horrible?

What did you mean in Matt. 19:12 about making oneself a eunuch for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven?

Why did your chroniclers give us four drastically different accounts of your resurrection? If it happened at all.

Why did Matthew and Luke give two genealogies of your (nominal) father?

Why is it that only Matthew knows about King Herod killing all those baby boys? If that incident had happened at all.

What do you think of the speculations that your father had really been a Roman soldier named Panthera?

What is your opinion of Paul, the epistle-writer? Do you think he gave a fair picture of you and your teachings?

What do you think about modern science? Its methods? Its discoveries?

What do you think of the Galileo affair?

Galileo had believed that the Bible tells us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go, while the Church at the time had believed that the Bible is not completely authoritative unless it is correct about how the heavens go. What are your opinions on these viewpoints?

Parts of the Bible imply that the Earth is cosmically stationary and that the Sun moves around it, like the Joshua Sun miracle. Do you agree with that implication?

Your chroniclers tell us that the Devil had shown you "all the kingdoms of the world" from some mountain. What's the real story? Was there such a mountain? And what did you see from it?

Do you think that the story of Noah's Flood is literal history? What is your opinion of the work of geologists, who have discovered no traces of that flood, and who are confident that the global version of Noah's Flood had never happened?

What is your opinion of the age of the Earth, and what is your opinion of the view of modern scientists that it is 4.5 billion years old?

What is your opinion of the idea that different kinds of living things share common ancestors? And that all of the Earth's life shares a single common ancestor that lived around 4 billion years ago?

What is your opinion of the idea that we are descended from long-ago monkeys/apes? And if we are not so descended, then why do you think that monkeys resemble us so much?

What is your opinion of the view that "God did it" is an empty non-explanation?

Proctors_Gambit · 11-05-2003, 09:28 PM

Who was the first person to arrive at your tomb??

Stephen T-B · 11-06-2003, 03:49 AM

How is it you "rose on the third day" when you died on Friday pm and were clear of the tomby by Sunday morning?

Ennazus · 11-06-2003, 05:29 AM

I'd like to know what Jesus thinks about all of the churches which are built in his name. Church of the Living Christ, Church of the Blessed One, Holy What-not etc...

Does he think the use of parishioners' money to buy real estate and build palatial churches is a good Christian use of resources? Does he think the Catholic Church should be protecting pedophiles and paying off their victims with parishioners' money?

Jesus, why should a last-minute conversion of a rapist/killer give them a free ticket to heaven? Shouldn't a person's life deeds count for something? If not, why not?

I have always thought that if there really IS a Jesus, he'd be disgusted with Christianity. Christianity as it exists today really is anti-Christ, IMHO.

Mathetes · 11-06-2003, 05:50 AM

What was the name of your "adoptive" father's father? Jacob, as in Mt 1:16? Or Heli, as in Lk 3:24?

What were you thinking when you were curing mental diseases by throwing out demons? Don't you know anything about psychiatry?

Jogyo · 11-06-2003, 06:31 AM

I would ask Jesus where he was all of those years that he was unaccounted for. I'd also have to ask:
Why are children born with physical defects?
Why are some folks rich and some so poor they can't afford to eat?
Why are some people smart and some academically challenged?
What did you think about Buddha?
How do the terrible things your father did in the Old Testament supposed to translate as a loving, caring god?
What happened to all the souls that never had a chance to be christians? Are they burning in an eternal hell?

11-05-2003, 03:55 AM	#21
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	son of God, God, et cetera Beleif in God was societally useful in those times. So terms like "son of God" and "God" can be considered culturally dated terms that no longer mean the same things as they once did, or at least lack the same emotional pull now as then.

11-05-2003, 08:01 PM	#23
Pouye Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Papua New Guinea Posts: 251	If you are interested, see my new thread Titled, "Suffering, Joy, Pain, Pleasure" Thanx, Rock

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11-05-2003, 05:12 AM	#22
southernhybrid Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: heavenly Georgia Posts: 3,862	Why must people who have contributed so much to humanity like for example, Ghandi, and Carl Sagan burn in hell through all eternity when some criminals like the ones who were crucified with you will enjoy eternal bliss simply because they accepted your divinity? What's so special about blind faith? Why give us a rational mind if we're supposed to suspend it to accept you? What's up with original sin, and why put the blame on a woman? Don't you realize how much sexism that has perpetuated in the world? And Jesus, aren't you a little bit ashamed of all the suffering that has gone on in the world due to your teachings? I'm thinking about things like the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials and slavery in colonial America for starters. Again if you had put more emphasis on good works and less on that egotistical idea that you are God and must be obeyed, perhaps your influence would have been more positive and would have actually helped humanity. Is there any chance you might rethink this through a bit more and help us out here? That blood sacrifice thing has never made a lick of sense to me. Was that your father's idea? What's up with that? It sounds more like something that would appeal to a Satanist, please explain. Is there any truth in the Gnostic gospels? I know they're not very popular among your followers, but I like the more tolerant, pantheistic Jesus portrayed there. He seemed like a much nicer guy. Do they give a more accurate representation of you and your message? If so, I have a lot more respect for you. I know you can't answer these questions Rock and that's okay, but these are the types of things that led to my leaving Xianity as a young woman.

11-05-2003, 09:12 PM	#24
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	Here are questions I would ask: Why did you get so angry when you discovered that a certain fig tree had not had figs when you were hungry? It was out of season, and you could easily have created some food for yourself, just as you had did with all that bread and fish and with that wine. What about the Pharisees had made you so angry? Were they really that horrible? What did you mean in Matt. 19:12 about making oneself a eunuch for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven? Why did your chroniclers give us four drastically different accounts of your resurrection? If it happened at all. Why did Matthew and Luke give two genealogies of your (nominal) father? Why is it that only Matthew knows about King Herod killing all those baby boys? If that incident had happened at all. What do you think of the speculations that your father had really been a Roman soldier named Panthera? What is your opinion of Paul, the epistle-writer? Do you think he gave a fair picture of you and your teachings? What do you think about modern science? Its methods? Its discoveries? What do you think of the Galileo affair? Galileo had believed that the Bible tells us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go, while the Church at the time had believed that the Bible is not completely authoritative unless it is correct about how the heavens go. What are your opinions on these viewpoints? Parts of the Bible imply that the Earth is cosmically stationary and that the Sun moves around it, like the Joshua Sun miracle. Do you agree with that implication? Your chroniclers tell us that the Devil had shown you "all the kingdoms of the world" from some mountain. What's the real story? Was there such a mountain? And what did you see from it? Do you think that the story of Noah's Flood is literal history? What is your opinion of the work of geologists, who have discovered no traces of that flood, and who are confident that the global version of Noah's Flood had never happened? What is your opinion of the age of the Earth, and what is your opinion of the view of modern scientists that it is 4.5 billion years old? What is your opinion of the idea that different kinds of living things share common ancestors? And that all of the Earth's life shares a single common ancestor that lived around 4 billion years ago? What is your opinion of the idea that we are descended from long-ago monkeys/apes? And if we are not so descended, then why do you think that monkeys resemble us so much? What is your opinion of the view that "God did it" is an empty non-explanation?

11-05-2003, 09:28 PM	#25
Proctors_Gambit Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 372	Who was the first person to arrive at your tomb??

11-06-2003, 03:49 AM	#26
Stephen T-B Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Leeds, UK Posts: 5,878	How is it you "rose on the third day" when you died on Friday pm and were clear of the tomby by Sunday morning?

11-06-2003, 05:29 AM	#27
Ennazus Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Chicago 'burbs Posts: 1,242	I'd like to know what Jesus thinks about all of the churches which are built in his name. Church of the Living Christ, Church of the Blessed One, Holy What-not etc... Does he think the use of parishioners' money to buy real estate and build palatial churches is a good Christian use of resources? Does he think the Catholic Church should be protecting pedophiles and paying off their victims with parishioners' money? Jesus, why should a last-minute conversion of a rapist/killer give them a free ticket to heaven? Shouldn't a person's life deeds count for something? If not, why not? I have always thought that if there really IS a Jesus, he'd be disgusted with Christianity. Christianity as it exists today really is anti-Christ, IMHO.

11-06-2003, 05:50 AM	#28
Mathetes Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Spaniard living in Silicon Valley Posts: 539	What was the name of your "adoptive" father's father? Jacob, as in Mt 1:16? Or Heli, as in Lk 3:24? What were you thinking when you were curing mental diseases by throwing out demons? Don't you know anything about psychiatry?

11-06-2003, 06:31 AM	#29
Jogyo Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Monroe, NC Posts: 184	I would ask Jesus where he was all of those years that he was unaccounted for. I'd also have to ask: Why are children born with physical defects? Why are some folks rich and some so poor they can't afford to eat? Why are some people smart and some academically challenged? What did you think about Buddha? How do the terrible things your father did in the Old Testament supposed to translate as a loving, caring god? What happened to all the souls that never had a chance to be christians? Are they burning in an eternal hell?

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