Will Wiley

After that outburst I'm going to just put you on my ignore list instead. Bye :wave:

EarlDoherty

"Ignore" a challenge? You mean "chickened-out" don't you? Typical. If you had any guts, or anything to back up your cocky pontification, you'd have risen to the occasion. Wouldn't it be better to actually prove me wrong, rather than come here all full of yourself and fire away with nothing but blanks? You think "ignore" is going to save you face? You've only shown what you're made of.

You guys are all the same.

Earl Doherty

stephan huller

Wow. How did atheists get so passionate arguing over whether a misguided lunatic was a non-existent abstraction? Isnt this a little like fighting over the shadow of an ass?

EarlDoherty

What we (or at least !) get "passionate" about is people like Will and others I could name dumping all over a perfectly legitimate theory when they know virtually nothing about it, let alone have a leg to stand on in rebutting it and condemning the people who present it.

And championing one's own ideas in opposition to (the principle of) received wisdom is what has created progress and the history of ideas. Do you advocate lounging around permanently in the Stone Age? (And we're hardly arguing over the nature of unicorns here.)

It doesn't mean everyone has to get passionate over every new idea. But let's not scoff at those who do get passionate about their chosen issues.

Earl Doherty

aa5874

Why do you claim Jesus of the NT was a mis-guided lunatic???

This is the problem. People are so passionate about THEIR own unknown Jesus.

People who read the NT would NOT argue that Pilate was NOT a Governor, Tiberius Not an Emperor, and Caiaphas was NOT an High Priest.

They would NOT argue that Gabriel was claimed to be an Angel and that Satan was the Devil.

Well in the NT, Jesus was NOT a misguided lunatic--Jesus was the Non-human Son of a Holy Ghost, the Son of God and God the Creator of heaven and earth. See Mark 1, Matthew 1, Luke 1, John 1 and Galatians 1

Why do people fight over their OWN unknown Jesus--"like fighting over the shadow of an ass"??

Perhaps that is where THEIR Jesus came from.

Jesus the mis-guided lunatic is NOT found in ancient sources of antiquity.

So where did such a mis-guided claim come from??

From the RARE REAR of somewhere???

Logical

Cool! Why don't you add it to the Historicity of Jesus page? I think it would be very relevant there.

Logical

If Paul, in the fifties and possibly sixties, believed in a celestial Jesus, and the gospels, possibly starting in the seventies, wrote about an earthly Jesus, then the change happened somewhere between the two. That's a single generation of Christians who supposedly grew up believing in the first concept of Jesus, and then collectively changed their minds and taught their children the second concept of Jesus.

Logical

People say that as if it's so outlandish. Rome, like all countries and empires, had to deal with countless criminals and dissenters, etc. If you commit murder in the U.S. (in certain states), you will be executed. Then I suppose someone in the future will refuse to believe the outlandish idea that you could have done anything that caused you to incur the wrath of the United States of America... ?

Logical

Excellent point. I've seen people on both sides exaggerate the bits and pieces that seem to support their position, and minimize the rest, claiming it was added by others, it means something other than the obvious meaning, etc.

It may be that you could find texts in the letters to support multiple mutually exclusive views because the letters were not written by one person, representing one coherent worldview.

outhouse

there were many movement of jesus going around

paul didnt invent the movement, nor its sole source