Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Corwin · 09-27-2004, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Your answers are empty. You just turned aroud without answering to the point.I'm wondering too where are you from and what have you seen and heard...

I'm assuming english isn't your first language.... either that or you're deliberately ignoring the various points I made. Or both.

Quote:

Ok, so you admit that you haven't heard about Christians suicide bombers.

Dead is dead. McVeigh made it quite obvious that he'd have stayed with the bomb if he'd felt he had to. As it was, he still killed a whole lot of people.

Quote:

But it is the Muslims who are presently practising honor killings the most widely in the world.

Not entirely. As I said... it's cultural. Most of those countries also have other religious communities in them... (such as ethiopia which has a fairly strong jewish community, as well as orthodox christians.)

While it would be nice to blame 'honor killings' on muslims... it doesn't fit.

Quote:

I don't know very well Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. So if they were Americans and commited such crimes they got punished. In the Muslim world honor killings are supported by their law and majority of Muslims and criminels do not go to prison. It is the victim who is punished.

They're christian 'jihadists.' Television preachers. Falwell is the one who blamed 9/11 on atheists, feminists, pagans, and liberals. Robertson was right there along with him.

Jihad is 'pursuit of Islam to the highest standard.'

Christians just don't call it 'jihad.'

Quote:

Christianity never promoted such punishments. As you know many Christian countries criminels are not sentenced to death anymore in prisons.
In the contrary Jesus teached to love enemy, forgive and help.
You forget that Quoran promotes violence and people follow it as their constitutional law and order.

You need to read some history. Specifically read about the Inquisition and the various punishments used by the various church-promoted monarchies in europe.

Quote:

Two worldviews that teach adherants two diffrent things. One uses force and violence, promotes killing, torture, diminishes human being and another who promotes love, education, helping others, forgiveness and compassion. May be there are bad Christians, but there are no good Muslims (I mean a Good Muslim who follows the Quoran, but a bad Muslim who choses to be a good person and is not aplying Quoran, so he is not Muslim anymore).

Both promote violence against nonbelievers. Both endorse love and compassion.

Whether or not a christian or muslim sect is violent or not depends on which scriptures they pay attention to, and which ones they ignore.

stray bullet · 09-27-2004, 01:43 PM

Corwin, where did Jesus or any of Jesus's apostles suggest violence unto non-believers?

stray bullet · 09-27-2004, 01:47 PM

Corwin-
"You need to read some history. Specifically read about the Inquisition and the various punishments used by the various church-promoted monarchies in europe."

So, if I start a religion, teach love and whatnot, then 1500 years later some peole who claim to be followers of mine do something in complete contradiction to what I taught, what I taught was violent?

I prefer judgment of the teachings of a religion be based on the actual religion, rather than what some 'followers' do 15 centuries later in one part of the world.

Corwin · 09-27-2004, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stray bullet

Corwin, where did Jesus or any of Jesus's apostles suggest violence unto non-believers?

Oh for godless sake.... start with reading Luke.

Sindi · 09-27-2004, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corwin

Whether or not a christian or muslim sect is violent or not depends on which scriptures they pay attention to, and which ones they ignore.

We'll never agree on these issues so it's usless to argue. Let's agree on disagreeing!

Besides, you ignored some of my points.

I understand why many atheists dislike Christians: they had done many horrible things in the past, especially in the Middle Age, and they're still annoying some atheists with their preaching. Let's change the question to ease our quest to WHAT IS WORSE: do you really think that Christian culture and beliefs are equal to those of Islam?
And also, I don't see how Christianity teaching promotes violence while there are lot of evidences on how Islam and Quoran greately approves/encourages it...

stray bullet · 09-27-2004, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corwin

Oh for godless sake.... start with reading Luke.

I have, mind pointing out where in suggests violence to non-believers?

stray bullet · 09-27-2004, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sindi

We'll never agree on these issues so it's usless to argue. Let's agree on disagreeing!

Besides, you ignored some of my points.

I understand why many atheists dislike Christians: they had done many horrible things in the past, especially in the Middle Age, and they're still annoying some atheists with their preaching. Let's change the question to ease our quest to WHAT IS WORSE: do you really think that Christian culture and beliefs are equal to those of Islam?
And also, I don't see how Christianity teaching promotes violence while there are lot of evidences on how Islam and Quoran greately approves/encourages it...

Of course, atheists has killed untold hundreds of millions of people too. Do I blame disbelief on it? No.

Freaky · 09-27-2004, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by River

The Arabic language reads from the right to the left. If you believe the Qur'an orders you to be killed you need a lesson in Islam 101.

Not all can read Arabic. If not, it depends on which translation is consulted. For example, Shakir translates suras 9:29 and 9:30 into English as:

[ 9: 29 ] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

[ 9: 30 ] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

Sindi · 09-27-2004, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stray bullet

Of course, atheists has killed untold hundreds of millions of people too. Do I blame disbelief on it? No.

Right. But we're talking about Christianity and Islam , not Atheism and Christianity. May be you're not blaming a disbeliever, but there are still many in this century who do. Usually just preaching, never heard of worse.
My question is to Corwin how Jesus Christ, in his opinion, promoted violence and how he can compare Christianity and Christ teaching to that of Islam and Muhammed?

Tuvar Ane Ingolenen · 09-27-2004, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by River

The Arabic language reads from the right to the left.

I know, I had to learn some in school.

Quote:

If you believe the Qur'an orders you to be killed you need a lesson in Islam 101.

Can you explain the meaning of this verse, to this kafir?

Quote:

4:89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,

Or is this useless, because

Quote:

2:6 As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not.
2:7 Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom.

Or is 'resistance is futile' basicaly what you are saying.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

09-27-2004, 01:43 PM	#42
stray bullet Veteran Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Where God wills me. Posts: 1,155	Corwin, where did Jesus or any of Jesus's apostles suggest violence unto non-believers?

09-27-2004, 01:47 PM	#43
stray bullet Veteran Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Where God wills me. Posts: 1,155	Corwin- "You need to read some history. Specifically read about the Inquisition and the various punishments used by the various church-promoted monarchies in europe." So, if I start a religion, teach love and whatnot, then 1500 years later some peole who claim to be followers of mine do something in complete contradiction to what I taught, what I taught was violent? I prefer judgment of the teachings of a religion be based on the actual religion, rather than what some 'followers' do 15 centuries later in one part of the world.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.