Freethought & Rationalism Archive

sharrock · 04-09-2007, 11:58 AM

Just watching a program about the above.

The narrator states that he translated the Greek text of the New Testament into Anglo-Saxon, replacing, for example, the word 'charity' (i.e. you could buy your way into heaven) with 'love'.

Is this correct ? If so, it's literary corruption.

Toto · 04-09-2007, 12:10 PM

Why is it a corruption? (By Anglo-Saxon, I assume that plain English is meant.)

Polemical claim:

Quote:

Tyndale translated I Cor. 13:13 like this:

"Now abide faith, hope, and LOVE, even these three: but the chief of these is LOVE" (I Cor. 13:13).

He corrected translated the Greek word AGAPE as love....Charity had the meaning of good works e.g. giving money to the "church" in order to get you into Heaven.

academic comment

Quote:

More also questioned what was to be done with the over one hundred words for which there was no direct English translation. How did one translate, for instance, the Greek word “agape” which points at the inability in the English language to differentiate between various types of love? More thought that the best word was “charity” but Tyndale instead opted for “love”. The debate is a significant one though as it shows Tyndale’s depth, not only as a theologian, but also as a linguist:

Verely charitie is no knowen Englishe, in that sence which agape reqireth … Also we say not, thys man hath a great charitie to god, but a great loue. Wherefore I must haue vsed this generall term loue, in spite of myne hart oftentimes… And finall I say not charitie God, or charitie your neighbour, but loue God and loue your neighbour.[7]

Tyndale argues though, that in fact, English is closer to the original Hebrew and Greek than Latin:

They will say it cannot be translated into our tounge it is so rude. It is not so rude as they are false lyers. For the Greeke tounge agreeth more with the English, then wyth the Latin. And the properties of the Hebrue tounge agreeth a thousand tymes more wyth the Englishe, then wyth the Latyn. The maner of speaking is both one, so that in a thousand places thou needest not but to translate it into the English, worde for worde, when thou must seeke a compasse in the Latin, and yet shalt haue much worke to translate it welfauouredly, so that it haue the same grace & sweetnesse, sence & pure understanding with it in the Latin, & as it hath in the Hebrue. A thousand partes better maye it be translated into the English, then into the Latin.[8]

sharrock · 04-09-2007, 12:19 PM

It's using a different word.....

sharrock · 04-09-2007, 12:20 PM

P.S. In mitigation I'm only the messenger here..... but surely his argument is subjective in nature...

Lugubert · 04-09-2007, 12:33 PM

For his time and age, it was a marvellous job, and he paid for it with his life. As knowledge of languages and cultures increases, there will always be opportunities to criticize older translations.

sharrock · 04-09-2007, 12:43 PM

In no way am i criticising it, that much I understand but this 'divinely' inspired works now mutates, thanks to one man's interpretation and the people of England now read a meaning different to the initially intended one.

Toto · 04-09-2007, 03:29 PM

What do you think the original meaning was, divinely inspired or otherwise? And what meaning are the people of England now reading into it?

sharrock · 04-09-2007, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

What do you think the original meaning was, divinely inspired or otherwise? And what meaning are the people of England now reading into it?

I have no idea what the original meaning was, divinely inspired or otherwise. What I find astounding is that people reading The English Bible are reading, and thus mentally conjuring with a word implanted by a sixteenth century reformist, a word removed from its original meaning.

Toto · 04-09-2007, 05:04 PM

I'm sure that Tyndale thought he was using a word that is close to the original meaning.

S.C.Carlson · 04-09-2007, 05:23 PM

The Greek ἀγάπη was often translated into Latin as caritas, from which the English charity descends via French.

04-09-2007, 11:58 AM	#1
sharrock Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 80	William Tyndale Just watching a program about the above. The narrator states that he translated the Greek text of the New Testament into Anglo-Saxon, replacing, for example, the word 'charity' (i.e. you could buy your way into heaven) with 'love'. Is this correct ? If so, it's literary corruption.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

04-09-2007, 12:19 PM	#3
sharrock Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 80	It's using a different word.....

04-09-2007, 12:20 PM	#4
sharrock Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 80	P.S. In mitigation I'm only the messenger here..... but surely his argument is subjective in nature...

04-09-2007, 12:33 PM	#5
Lugubert Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Western Sweden Posts: 3,684	For his time and age, it was a marvellous job, and he paid for it with his life. As knowledge of languages and cultures increases, there will always be opportunities to criticize older translations.

04-09-2007, 12:43 PM	#6
sharrock Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 80	In no way am i criticising it, that much I understand but this 'divinely' inspired works now mutates, thanks to one man's interpretation and the people of England now read a meaning different to the initially intended one.

04-09-2007, 03:29 PM	#7
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	What do you think the original meaning was, divinely inspired or otherwise? And what meaning are the people of England now reading into it?

04-09-2007, 05:04 PM	#9
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	I'm sure that Tyndale thought he was using a word that is close to the original meaning.

04-09-2007, 05:23 PM	#10
S.C.Carlson Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: USA Posts: 1,307	The Greek ἀγάπη was often translated into Latin as caritas, from which the English charity descends via French.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.