WILLOWTREE

Whats your point ?

WT

WILLOWTREE

Posts #1 and #17 remain.

Any takers ?

WT

Sensei Meela

You said you could defend God. You can at best special plead for Him and ipse dixit your way through any number of other fallacies.

BrianJ

There was no failure to tell the difference between Hitler and God.

It is clear that the difference is that God is more proficient at genocide and is a more evil twisted b*st*rd than Hitler.

So, no failure to tell the diffrence.

You are rambling WT, are you after Ken Demeyer's title?

Weltall

Nope, because there isn't a difference conceptually. I can only assume you don't find anything wrong with God killing the entire human population of Earth bar eight in a flood (to say nothing of uncountable numbers of plants and animals), ordering his chosen people to commit genocide and rape and many more crimes?
Atheism means 'without theism', if we were 'against' theists we'd call ourselves antitheists. Try to get your meanings straight.
Talking like Yoda, you are. Product of the alimentary canal of a cow, you are spewing.
I assume that you have evidence that Darwin is somehow linked to Fascisim and Hitler? Or are you just hoping that by asserting it is so, people will actually believe it. Why don't you try to argue that evolution is the root of communism, it's been a while since I've debunked that tired argument.
What is circular logic?
Answer: Willowtree's posts.

Knurd

:banghead: The constant anti-intellectual attitude favored by the church is one of the things that caused me to leave the faith that I had followed for over 40 years. If God doesn't want us to use our minds, why did he give them to us? If an intellectual thought is bad it can be countered by a more accurate intellectual thought. I wanted to use my God given mind for the glory of God, but it was not allowed.

(BTW and off topic, I've been to bible college - a place largely devoid of intellectual freedom.)

A point that you're missing about Nazi Germany is that you're discussing politics. Politics is about gaining and maintaining power, not intellectualism. Much of the pre-war German intelligentsia opposed the Nazi party. The Nazis exploited any intellectual ideas that seemed to support their position, and suppressed anything else. The Nazis painted a picture of the world, but would not allow any intellectuals to point out how nasty that picture was. My experience in the church taught me that religion in general quickly latches onto any idea that seems to give support, but is quite antagonistic toward anything else.

Willowtree, be careful when you assign motives to other people. We are all fellow human beings here. You're not a god who can look into anyone's head and know their motivation.

To paraphrase your statement, you're saying that people reject god because they hate him and are in rebellion.

When I was a committed Christian I had the blinders of faith on so tightly that I could not accept that anyone could really think that the bible was errant, or that god did not create the world 6000 years ago, or that hell might not exist (and a thousand other things). It was so much more comforting to believe that my faith was absolute, and they had some spiritual ax to grind. They hated god, or they had a bad church experience, or something, or anything. If I took an agnostic/atheist testimony at face value I'd have to at least loosen those blinders of faith.

And then, at a snail's pace, I began to think for myself... but that's another story.

Toto

This whole thread seems to be headed in the direction of Elsewhere, now that Hitler's religion has entered the discussion.

I will give it one last chance.

Willowtree: I say it is immoral for a Divine Power to send bears to eat people who make fun of a prophet's bald head, whether they were children or adolescents. If you think that part of the Bible is in any way accurate, you must conclude that YHWH is not "good" by any definition of the term other than "anything God does is good."

What would you like to say about this?

WILLOWTREE

Hi Toto:

I would like to respond to Knurd if you allow it ?

Events like above PROVE the claim of the contents of the Bible were authored and controlled by God.

Man would NOT create a source about a universal God and invent stories like what happened with those children.

Man would not invent a source that has the Deity ordering the deaths of every living thing in a certain city.

Lets assume the claim of Scripture - that it is the eternal word of God.

Resaon for Being of Scripture: Good or bad whatever God says will happen.

Fact: The Prophet represents and speaks for God.

What God is attempting to get across is that what He says through His prophet will happen - NO EXCEPTIONS.

The Prophet made a mistake - no doubt.

In the heat of an insult he opened his mouth and cursed the children.

God kept the word spoken by the Prophet (in this case a curse) and killed the children.

But another truth is furthered: An attack on God's man is taken personally by God. Those children were taught from birth that the Prophet will be feared and respected or you risk what happened to Korah in the wilderness when he opposed Moses.

When Samuel came to anoint David the village elders asked, "Come peaceably ?"

This horrible incident is INTENDED to convince mankind that God is not fooling around - that He means what He says about the loomimg judgement of hell.

IF God will keep His word by the mouth of His Prophet to the hurt of innocent children THEN this is the basis to realize that when His greatest Prophet/His Son warns of hell and that salvation only comes when you trust Him by faith.

Assuming the claim of the Bible = eternal word of God:

Why would God tell on Himself and allow this event to be recorded ?

God knows full well that this incident will make Him look like a monster.

God intentionally made sure this event was recorded to get the point across that WHATEVER HE (or His Prophet) SAYS WILL HAPPEN.

God kept His word and killed the children for the benefit of later generations to realize the following words are true and will happen:

Hebrews 2:2,3

For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;

3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him

Good or bad whatever God says will happen.

The Serpent told Eve "you won't die".

Every cemetary in existence proves the devil a liar.

Grand Point:

If God will keep His word to the hurt of children by the mouth of His Prophet - THEN HOW MUCH MORE WILL HE KEEP HIS WORD TO US WHO DILIGENTLY TRUST HIS SON.

Toto

Go ahead. But I will probably split the thread and move those posts to GRD or another form

This is quite interesting, but I can't grant you that assumption.

WILLOWTREE

You are right.

Most people nap through the sermon because they are just too intelligent to waste that time doing anything else.

At Dr. Scott's church he demands that you bring your brain and he will make you use it.

You should not forsake the Church because morons abound.

Because of idiots - you have assumed they are representing God aright.

Moses was trained in all the knowledge of the most advanced civilization of that time.

Scholars know by studying Isaiah that his writing style makes him to be highly educated if not the most educated Prophet/scribe ever.

Paul was brought up at the feet of the brightest Jewish scholar of his day and God used him to produce 2/3 of the N.T.

Dr. Scott has a Ph.D. from Stanford (philosophies of education 1957)
That is a cross departmental degree in philosophy and religion. Doctoral dissertation: Theology of Reinhold Niebuhr.

He lost his faith in college for the same reasons you state. Then a 3 1/2 year study of the Resurrection evidence convinced him that it was true and that he was going to invade the Church with intelligence and shame those who misrepresent it. This is why fundamentalists hate Dr. Scott.

Dr. Scott: "Show me ONE scholar produced by Pentecostalism ?"

Dr. Scott has mastered: Greek, Hebrew, Coptic, Ethiopic, Syriac, Aramaic, Arabic, Latin, Armenian, etc etc.

God is FOR intellectaulism - thats my point !


In behalf of the Church - I apologize.


Agreed.

I am not an inerrantist.

The Bible contains errors.

Theologians and scholars exist to correct those errors.

But the errors in no way harm the veracity of the central message.

YEC or OEC is not mandatory to get going with God.

The Bible was written to prove that it does exist and to show the only way of escape: the gospel/way of faith.

Then I urge you to forsake extremism and re-consider God.

WT