Freethought & Rationalism Archive

JaredM · 01-03-2006, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Converts are prized by radical Islamic groups because they can usually operate freely in Europe, Asia and North America without arousing the suspicion of police. They are also often eager to accept dangerous assignments as a way to prove their devotion, experts said.

"What is new is that with al Qaeda, converts are now considered full members," said Olivier Roy, research director at the French National Center for Scientific Research and an authority on Islamic radicalism. "For al Qaeda, converts are not just tools to get past security. It's a way for them to become a global movement. In just about every al Qaeda cell over the past eight years, we have seen converts. It's structural, not just accidental."

***

In France, which has 5 million Muslims, the most in a European country, authorities have dealt with radical Islamic converts for years but say the problem is becoming worse, fueled in part by a religious and political backlash over the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

"The converts are undeniably the hardest ones," anti-terrorism magistrate Jean-Louis Bruguiere told the French newspaper Le Figaro in October, a few days after police arrested two converts in a town south of Paris on suspicion of terrorist activity. "The conversions today are more rapid, and their engagement is more radical."

This is amazing--non-Muslims are basically volunteering to become Muslim terrorists. I wonder if the whole "72 virgins" thing is their motivation?

--Jared

newtype_alpha · 01-03-2006, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaredM

From Washington Post-MSNBC story

This is amazing--non-Muslims are basically volunteering to become Muslim terrorists. I wonder if the whole "72 virgins" thing is their motivation?

--Jared

They say there's no zealot like a new convert. Probably they're reaching out to "fresh" Muslims that don't yet have enough confidence in their religious walk to examine the content of any given sermon and declare decisively, "This is some bullshit..."

Simply put, it's easier to talk someone into doing something wrong if he is unsure what the right way is.

Lenina · 01-03-2006, 09:32 AM

Converts are always the most dangerous - and the least able to see a grey area when they see one. I was a convert myself - converted to Evangelical Christianity from Quakerism.

I was reading yesterday about "Religious OCD", that's Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, a mental illness where people cope with anxiety by performing rituals and compulsions. Typically, its things like hand-washing, obsessive tidiness etc. but there is a form whereby the sufferer "cleanses the soul" rather than more outward manifestations - praying for hours, praying through lists, indulging in complex rituals etc.

I definitely feel that some of my years of apparent religious fervor were actually a form of OCD (an illness that I've had subsequently, in more typical forms) and it's got me thinking: are these religious fanatics actually mentally ill? Wouldn't it be very attractive, to a person with those kinds of issues (coupled with social isolation, depression, low self-esteem) to be drawn to a rigid, obsessive religion? And wouldn't those same people be vulnerable to the influences of powerful people with an evil agenda?

It struck me also, after a Moslem friend had a crisis and had to stay overnight at a non-Moslem friend's house and then refused to eat or drink anything on the grounds that it was not Halal, despite being 8 months pregnant. I've had Moslem friends all my life, and I know that the Qur'ran allows for a lot of emergy situations like that - there is a cleansing ritual that can be performed if a person has to eat non-Halal meat, accidentally consumes alcohol etc. The thing is, she's a convert, whereas all of my friends have been born into the religion, and so know all the "get out clauses" for situations like that. I'm not suggesting that she has OCD, but she is a little obsessive and rigid, like many converts.

I think the question we need to ask is: What are these people hoping to get from organised religion? What need is propelling them to join up? And if we understand that need, and maybe provided alternative means of having that need met, maybe young people wouldn't get sucked into extremism?

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01-03-2006, 09:32 AM	#3
Lenina Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Cambridgeshire, UK Posts: 78	Converts are always the most dangerous - and the least able to see a grey area when they see one. I was a convert myself - converted to Evangelical Christianity from Quakerism. I was reading yesterday about "Religious OCD", that's Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, a mental illness where people cope with anxiety by performing rituals and compulsions. Typically, its things like hand-washing, obsessive tidiness etc. but there is a form whereby the sufferer "cleanses the soul" rather than more outward manifestations - praying for hours, praying through lists, indulging in complex rituals etc. I definitely feel that some of my years of apparent religious fervor were actually a form of OCD (an illness that I've had subsequently, in more typical forms) and it's got me thinking: are these religious fanatics actually mentally ill? Wouldn't it be very attractive, to a person with those kinds of issues (coupled with social isolation, depression, low self-esteem) to be drawn to a rigid, obsessive religion? And wouldn't those same people be vulnerable to the influences of powerful people with an evil agenda? It struck me also, after a Moslem friend had a crisis and had to stay overnight at a non-Moslem friend's house and then refused to eat or drink anything on the grounds that it was not Halal, despite being 8 months pregnant. I've had Moslem friends all my life, and I know that the Qur'ran allows for a lot of emergy situations like that - there is a cleansing ritual that can be performed if a person has to eat non-Halal meat, accidentally consumes alcohol etc. The thing is, she's a convert, whereas all of my friends have been born into the religion, and so know all the "get out clauses" for situations like that. I'm not suggesting that she has OCD, but she is a little obsessive and rigid, like many converts. I think the question we need to ask is: What are these people hoping to get from organised religion? What need is propelling them to join up? And if we understand that need, and maybe provided alternative means of having that need met, maybe young people wouldn't get sucked into extremism?

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