mrmoderate

I do not consider myself to be a Trinitarian only because I do not believe in confining God to only three distinct persons. God is spiritual, not physical.

While God was incarnate in the physical Jesus of Nazareth, the physical Jesus only existed in the physical world for 33 years, according to the bible.

There are many instances of Jesus's speaking that can be attributed to the physical person and others that are from the authority of God. Just because God was with Jesus does not mean that God was still not omnipotent at the same time.

This is a concept that is difficult enough for mere mortal believers to accept so I cannot imagine how someone who is not a believer could ever begin to comprehend the concept without thinking schizoid.

But, that is just a thought from one of the millions of religously schizophrenics of the universe. I'm sure there are drugs that will cure my illness.

Vorkosigan

What a wonderful bit on those verses!

Mageth

The Jew's concept of God is what changed, of course. I thought that went without saying, coming from me. And I did say "the Bible, if viewed as a biography of God".

JoeWallack

JW:
In the Gospels "you have heard" is generally used for the illiterate Masses (pun intended) and refers to their hearing the Law being read. "You have read" is generally used for "The Pharisees" who being better educated presumably would have read for themselves.

I think better evidence for the multiple personality of the Christian god/gods is the baptism story:

Mark 1: (KJV)
11 "And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

If Jesus is god/gods and the son is the father/fathers then who the Hell is this voice coming from? I humbly offer three possibilities:

1) Due to the water sounds Jesus was misquoted and actually said:

"This is my beloved Sunscreen. Who cut the cheese?"

2) In addition to his many other talents, Jesus was the all-time greatest ventriloquist.

3) The voice was actually that of George Burns who was rehearsing for his upcoming role in Oh God, Part Jew!

While we're on the subject of multiple personalities I have a related question for Christians that I've never received a satisfactory answer to:

If someone has multiple personalities and only one of the personalities is Christian, what is the long term implication for the person/s soul/s? For instance:

Does the one Christian personality save the entire person?

Does the non Christian personality damn the entire person?

Is only the Christian personality saved and if so what is the implication for the entire body?


Joseph

TRINITY, n.
In the multiplex theism of certain Christian churches, three entirely distinct deities consistent with only one. Subordinate deities of the polytheistic faith, such as devils and angels, are not dowered with the power of combination, and must urge individually their clames to adoration and propitiation. The Trinity is one of the most sublime mysteries of our holy religion. In rejecting it because it is incomprehensible, Unitarians betray their inadequate sense of theological fundamentals. In religion we believe only what we do not understand, except in the instance of an intelligible doctrine that contradicts an incomprehensible one. In that case we believe the former as a part of the latter.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Errors...yguid=68161660

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/abdulreis/myhomepage/

Boomeister

You're right. In fact, Schizophrenia is misunderstood among most people. Multiple Personality Disorder and Schizophrenia are not the same things, but many people think they are.


Boomeister

EssEff

The first quote is not pacifistic at all. It's actually the earliest known reference to what is known today as "mooning."

Does that clarify things?

SpiritualSon

I am Jehovah, and besides Me there is no Savior (Isa. 43:11).
Am not I Jehovah, and there is none besides Me, and there is no Savior besides Me. Look unto Me and be ye saved all the ends of the earth (Isa. 45:21, 22).

I am Jehovah thy God, and there is no Savior besides Me (Hos. 13:4).
I Jehovah will give thee for a covenant to the people, for a light of the nations. I am Jehovah, that is My name, and My glory will I not give to another (Isa.42:6,8).

I am Jehovah and there is none else there is no God besides Me that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is no God besides Me: I am Jehovah and there is none else (Isa.45:5,6).

Have not I Jehovah? and there is no God else besides Me, a just God and a Savior, there is none besides Me. Look unto Me that ye may be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is none else (Isa. 45:21, 22).

I am Jehovah, and besides Me there is no Savior (Isa.43:11).
I am Jehovah thy God, and thou shalt acknowledge no God but Me; for there is no Savior besides Me (Hos. 13:4).

Thus saith Jehovah the King of Israel, and his Redeemer Jehovah of Armies, I am the First and I am the Last, and besides Me there is no God (Isa. 44:6).

All these saying of Jehovah God above makes the trinity of thee Divine persons before creation false.The three Divine persons before creation contradicts the sayings above.

Harry

Magus55

How do you figure? If all parts of the Trinity are one God, then it isn't a contradiction. When Yahweh states there is no savior but Him, He is correct. Jesus isn't a separate Savior. Jesus is Yahweh incarnate in the flesh. And in Revelation, Jesus is declared the Alpha and the Omega ( first and last; beginning and end). Same as Jehovah.

Magdlyn

Who is this Jehovah?

JoeWallack

JW:
Reverend Ingersoll tried to explain the Trinity many
years ago thusly:
"Christ, according to the faith, is the second person in the
Trinity, the Father being the first and the Holy Ghost third. Each of
these persons is God. Christ is his own father and his own son. The
Holy Ghost is neither father nor son, but both.
The son was begotten by the father, but existed before he was
begotten--just the same before as after. Christ is just as old as his
father, and the father is just as young as his son. The Holy Ghost
proceeded from the Father and Son, but was equal to the Father and
Son before he proceeded, that is to say, before he existed, but he is
of the same age as the other two. So it is declared that the Father
is God, and the Son and The Holy Ghost God, and these three Gods make
one God. According to the celestial multiplication table, once one is
three, and three time one is one, and according to heavenly
subtraction if we take two from three, three are left. The addition is
equally peculiar:
if we add two to one we have but one. Each one equal to himself and to
the other two. Nothing ever was, nothing ever can be more perfectly
idiotic and absurd than the dogma of the Trinity." (Ingersoll's
Works, Vol. 4, p. 266-67)."

Ingersoll's full article is in my admittedly biased opinion probably
one of the best articles I have ever seen explaining the Trinity. But
for the "Am Ha Aretz" among us without the benefit of theological
training such as Magus55 undoubtedly received from the Southern
Baptists this: (Closed caption for the Hamesh)

Listening to missionaries try to explain the Trinity concept has
always reminded me of an Abbott and Costello routine which could be
called "WhoSonFirst?" I never really understood the Christian concept
of the Trinity until my long time friend, Ronald Reagan, explained it
to me. So, in order to educate everyone regarding the proper
understanding of the Trinity concept it is my honor and privilege to
introduce to everyone, the former President of the United States, Mr.
Ronald Reagan:

Hullo again everybody. My good friend, JoeWallack, asked if I would
come here to help explain the Trinity. Now, I'll be the first one to
admit that I'm not perfect. I can see now that JoeWallack was 100%
correct when he told me that if I would just select Jews for the
Secretary of Treasury, State, and Defense positions we could solve
the Federal deficit problem in no time, but I wouldn't listen. But as
you know I am still known as The Great Communicator. In looking over
the posts in this folder I must say that I haven't seen this much
confusion since Yogi Berra and the Pope issued a joint statement
saying that 50% of Catholicism was 90% mental.

In order to reduce all this confusion I will now explain the Trinity
concept. Think of the Trinity as supply side religion, plenty of G-d,
more than enough for everyone. You have the Father, the Son and the
Holy Spirit. The Father and Son can have a relationship, known as the
Trickle Down Theory and the Holy Spirit can be anything which is not
the Father or Son. If you need to argue that there is just one God
you can say they are all just different dimensions of the same God.
If you need to argue that they have a relationship with each other
you can say that they all have different functions. If you need to
argue that G-d was human you can say that the Son was human. If you
need to argue that God is divine you can say that the Father is
divine. If you need to argue that God can be human and divine you
can say that the Son was human and divine. If you have a missing
piece you can argue that the Holy Spirit is the missing piece. Let me
give you an example:

Ronald Reagan : Now, think of God as an infinite pie. Now, half of
the pie well, that's God the Father. Now, half of the
pie, well, that's God the Son and the other half well,
let's just say that that's the Holy Spirit.

JoeWallack : But former President Reagan, that would be three
halfs.

Ronald Reagan : No, you don't understand. Think of the Father as an
infinite Apple Pie. Now, think of the Son as an
infinite combination of an infinite Chocolate Pie and
an infinite Pecan Pie. Now, think of the Holy Spirit
as an infinite Pineapple Upside-Down Pie. Now, take
half of the Apple Pie and half of the Pineapple Upside-
Down Pie and mix them together in an infinitely large
mixing bowl and then pour them out over the Chocolate
and Pecan Pie and then place everything in an
infinitely large cooking pan and bake for eternity in
an infinitely large oven at an infinitely hot
temperature and then remove from the oven and cut into
an infinite amount of pieces and mix for eternity with
the remaining Apple and Pineapple Upside-Down Pies.

JoeWallack : But former President Reagan, that would be a big mess.

Ronald Reagan : That's right! Now you understand.