Harumi

Recently, I managed to get myself into a debate with several people on religion and their beliefs. What I noticed of course, are the many common arguments and fallacies that people make about atheism. Some felt that agnosticism and weak atheism are the same thing. Others claimed that atheists require just as much faith as theists do. Another continually insisted, with a condescending, "Hey sweetie, but I hate to tell you this *pat pat*" that atheism is a religion.

It didn't last long, but I soon gave up. It's frustrating to talk to these people, and all of them weren't even Christians, but people who, for the most part, detest organized religion but just feel that there is something out there watching over them.

I finally managed to get one girl to admit that her belief in a deity isn't from reason, but purely from faith. She believes in god because it "feels right", even though she realizes that her position is illogical, and that mine was more sound than hers. Still, she will continue to believe because it makes her feel good.

What frightens me is that this type of feeling, applied elsewhere, is very dangerous. Replace god with say, jews, and then you get something like:

"I just don't like jews, because it doesn't feel right. I know where you're coming from and it makes sense, but it still feels wrong."

Apply it to gay rights and you get:

"What you say about gays and the facts about them may be true, but I just can't feel good about it. Giving them rights feels wrong, even though I can see your reasoning behind it and I know that I have none."

Is anyone else disturbed by the way many theists sink their heads into the sand like this? Hey, I know that the warm fuzzies feel good, but I'm honest enough with myself to know that even if it feels good, it might not necessarily be right. And I try very hard to get rid of illogical stances even if I may feel emotionally attached or repulsed by it.

But now...I'm getting the feeling that my position isn't very common, and that most will cling to their positions purely by feeling alone. That depresses me. And now, with new understanding, I can fully see the phrase "Religion is a crutch" in a new light.

EarlOfLade

It's like peeing in your pants during the winter, it makes you feel warm and good for a few minutes before the cold comes back even worse than before.

pause2think

I feel with ya.

I've said a number of times that most of today's versions of Christianity are like the love and peace movements of the 60-70's. Few people really understand the cultish dynamics of this faith. It's the feel good religion now. It's even getting quite hip.

On the flip side, I've heard that some of the most conservative and demanding sects are the fastest growing. Mormons and such. . .

Feeling good and learning how to follow the leader. . . I have to just shake my head sometimes. I have in mind an arena full of waving hands, "amens" on cue, and the bucket being passed.. .

www.escapereligion.com

Deacon Doubtmonger

Don't forget there's another angle to this -- the notion among theists that they and their sky-spook have exclusive warm-fuzzy distribution rights. If I hear the old saw "No atheist ever offered anyone any comfort at a funeral" or the like ever again, I'll be driven nearly to apoplexy ... :banghead:

LoneWolf

Personally, I do think that weak atheism and agnosticism are pretty damn close, if not the same thing. If there is a difference it falls in some semantic twist of words that I can’t quite differentiate. And I am a weak atheist. Although I don’t really like it when theists call me that because I am afraid they don’t understand the definition are using it as an insult. Who the hell wants to be called a “weak” anything? And if someone uses a stupid phrase with no proof like “atheism is a religion” I use another tried and true one liner “atheism is a religion in the same way that not playing baseball is a sport”. It is old hat to us but most theists have never heard it.

I can understand believing something because it makes one happy to believe it. And if feeling “all warm and fuzzy inside” is the only consequence of believing it then by all means, go on believing it. But many religious people actually make life choices and alter their interactions with other people based on these unfounded beliefs, and there in lies the problem.

Alethias

It gives warm fuzzies as long as you don't look very close or dig very deeply. When you start digging, and caring about the contradictions, and wondering why the smoke and mirrors are more real than the god that is supposed to be behind them, the cognitive dissonance starts driving you insane.

Or you quit believing and get a sense of peace and well-being.

At least that's how it worked for me.

Alethias.

Harumi

I had tried this actually. Typical of theists it went straight over their heads. I had expected more from them: most of them were deists or people with no discernable religious preferences but feel an overwhelming amount of spirituality.

Now, I have nothing against spirituality, because I feel that I myself am very much spiritual. But what bothered me, in addition to everything else, is that for them, without god, the wonders of the world ceases to be fantastical. I can never understand that. The fact that the universe is fantastical is good enough for me, and does not need a god to make it beautiful. The universe is awe inspiring because it is, not because some unprovable being made it so.

Just when I was beginning to think that I may have something in common with other theists, I lose it. The fact that these people are deists has made me thoroughly depressed. I think I shall instead stay with atheists for a while. We're a saner bunch, and less likely to make me wish to pull my hair.

DBT

"Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby."

If Atheism is a religion then health is just another disease.