Wayne Delia

I completely agree with that, especially as it applies to myself: if you really know me, then you can't help but worship me. If you have no desire to do so then you must wonder whether you know me or not.

Why does that sound vain and arrogant coming from me, but perfectly natural with respect to your God?

WMD

Wayne Delia

Of course not. If it was, the religion would be named something like "Christianity"... wait a second... never mind.

WMD

Cross Examiner

Why is it not arrogant for the knowledge of the infinite God engendering worship in those who know Him but not so for those who know you? Simple. Compare Wayne, some bloke from New York, born on x died at y, to YHWH, 'I AM THAT I AM,' God of Eternity ... and bada boom bada bing not a surprising thing But then you were kidding about all this, right?

"It is in the process of being worshipped that God communicates His presence to men."

-- C.S. Lewis Reflections on the Psalms

Regards,
BGic

beyelzu

Your lewis quote truly somes up the problem I have with xianity. If I can only know your god by worshipping him, chances are I wont even catch he guy.

Rational BAC

I think "worshipping" God is slightly overated. Sounds like OT crap mostly to me.

God is your good buddy. A very very smart good buddy.

Kosh

Try it like this: Compare Wayne, some bloke from New York, with YHWH, former tribal war god promoted to the top of their imagination by a bunch of Ignorant Bronze Age Goat Herders suffering from a SERIOUS case of ethnocentricity.

I'll take Wayne anyday... at least he can tell me where the good Delis are.

Opera Nut

I do not "know" god. I consider the word "Know" in this context to be quite ridiculous. If there is a cosmic entity humans call "god", and I have NO evidence for the existence of such cosmic entity, then there is probably no way that our limited human minds could comprehend such a vast entity.

Furthermore, in past times I worshiped and prayed to this abstract "god" entity. I spent many hundreds of hours praying to it and participating in worship services.

However, this "god" never spoke to me, never indicated its existence, never told me what it wanted me to do with my life, never indicated to me in the slightest fashion what it considered to be my best course of action.

In fact, when I was busy worshiping "god" my life was MORE PAINFUL than it was before, because the so called Christians would not help me find a job, and spent all their time criticizing me, tearing me down, telling me I'd never be good enough, telling me I was a worthless sinful piece of shit, and it made me want to crawl in a hole and die. They told me I had "no right" to charge for my work, even, like I was supposed to live on air. I would rather kill myself than endure the pain of their put downs and insults constantly. Fortunately I got the hell out before I did myself any real serious harm. I do have some serious emotional scars, though.

I think this whole discussion is irrelevant to my experience and plainly stupid. These presumptions that "god needs us to worship him" are baseless, in my experience, and arrogant.


From the incomparable iconoclastic Mark Twain:

"Man is a marveous curiosity. When he is at his very best he is a sort of low grade nickel plated angel; at his worst he is inspeakable, unimaginable; and first and last and all the time he is a sarcasm. Yet he blandly and in all sincerity calls himself the "Noblest work of God". This is the truth I am telling you. And this is not a new idea with him, he has talked it through all the ages, and believed it. Believed it and found nobody among all his race to laugh at it.

"Moreover, if I may put another strain upon you -- he thinks he is the Creator's pet. He believes the Creator is proud of him; he even believes the Creator loves him; has a passion for him; sits up nights to admire him; yes, and watch over him and keep him out of trouble. He prays to Him, and thinks He listens. Isn't it a quaint idea? Fills his prayers with crude and bald and florid flatteries of Him, and thinks He sits and purrs over these extravagancies and enjoys them. He prays for help, and favor, and protection, every day; and does it with hopefulness and confidence, too, although no prayer of his has ever been answered. The daily affront, the daily defeat, do not discourage him, he goes on praying just the same. There is something almost fine about this perseverance. I must put one more strain upon you: he thinks he is going to heaven!

"He has salaried teachers who tell him that. They also tell him there is a hell, of ever lasting fire, and that he will go to it if he doesn't keep the Commandments. What are the Commandments? They are a curiosity. I will tell you about them by and by."

--Letters From the Earth

:notworthy