Julian

Agreed, but it was hardly necessary.

Julian

Diogenes the Cynic

Not to mention the fact that the Israelites were never enslaved in Egypt to begin with.

I would encourage Prax too seek out a copy of The Bible Unearthed for some genuine archeological scholarship on the Exodus.

Steven Avery

This is precisely the review that skipped over all the substantive issues in the book. The review is the biggest junque I ever saw, and the skeptics should be ashamed to have to reference such a weak rant sans substance.

Now, as you seem to agree on the chariot wheels (and other evidences?), then we have already disproven the earlier harangues as mistaken.

Shalom,
Praxeas
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/

Steven Avery

The information isn't even first-person from Amirault (universalist, evangelical only by a stretch of the word). Amirault quotes some unnamed person who is against Ron, who says that somebody gave Ron a lie detector test ... no names, no locations, no places, no questions, no nothing, not even a scintilla of verbal corroboration by anyone .... no mention by Amirault of even asking for a bit of documentation.

Diogenes.. perhaps you need to take the word "cynic" off your name.

"Diogenes the Naive"

Shalom,
Praxeas
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/

Steven Avery

> Diogenes the Cynic
> I think the more pertinent evidence is that Wyatt's own son admitted the fraud.
The same "lie detector Amirault" tells you that somebody's wife spoke to a son of Ron's and that he "planted" chariot wheels in the Red Sea ??????

Quotes, please.. a scenario please.. actual quotes.. names, real evidence.

Did Ron paint on encrusted coral ?
Did he smuggle the wheels into Egypt ?
Does this account for the later finds of others, such as Lennart Moller ?

Our "cynics" and "skeptics" seem to become rather naive when the wrong ox is gored.

They become experts in parrotting the unsubstantiated and ultra-dubious accusation.

Integrity first.

Shalom,
Praxeas
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/

Toto

What agreement?

Steven Avery

Red Dave -
"A chariot wheel underwater does not validate the story of Exodus."

Maybe after these folks are done scouring for the scurrilous we can actually discuss matters of evidence, or history, or real examination of various sites and theories and claims. Especially notice how weak the one "book review" is, like grade-school level, without meaning to insult any third graders.

I really expected a little more from the skeptics than their dredging on this thread.

Shalom,
Praxeas
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/

Toto

Saying that one hypothetical chariot wheel of unknown provenance underwater does not validate Exodus is entirely different from saying that there was in fact a chariot wheel under water that needs to be accounted for as evidence.

Diogenes the Cynic

Who knows. Nobody has seen this magical wheel and nobody knows where it is now. It has never been made available for any scientific analysis.
It's one wheel, singular, and who knows? He was known for buying antiquities and then pretending he had "found" them. It's plausible that he bpought a wheel in Egypt somewhere - or more likely made a fake one - and then pretended to find it in the sea.
There are no other discoveries, just some picture of coral that look kind of like "wheels" if you squint and enhance the photographs by drawing circles around stuff.
I have no idea what you're talking about. Wyatt is the one who made the claims and then always declined make any of his wondrous finds available to scrutiny. Anything that has been examined has been thoroughly debunked, usually by Bible believing Christians.

If Tentmaker isn't Christian enough for you, how about Answers In Genesis? (scroll down to the Wyatt evisceration).

Oh...and the admission of fraud by Wyatt's son is not exactly required to debunk anything. The real archaeological and historical evidence in Egypt, in Israel and in the Sinai Peninsula conclusively show that the Exodus story never happened.

Steven Avery

Have you looked at the pictures on p.211 of "The Exodus Case" ?

I'm well aware of AIG's antaganism to Ron Wyatt. If you find some particular evdientiary or integrity argument compelling, then share away. Hopefully it will be more substantive than "I know of somebody who says that they gave Ron a lie detector test that he failed, he couldn't even get his own name right".

I asked you for hard and precise evidence of what is this twice or thrice-removed supposed "admission of fraud". To simply repeat the accusation without even responding to the request is quite tacky and irresponsible.

It is a lot easier to take that stance if you avoid the various evidences for the Aqaba crossing and Mount Sinai in Arabia, perhaps by waving a hand at vague allusions from AIG or accusations from Amirault. Of course that does in fact almost completely bypass the Sinai Peninsula, where the majority of searching and archaelogy is done. Today it is pretty much accepted (e.g. Hershel Shanks, various books by non-Ron folks) that the Aqaba crossing, as researched by Ron, is the main claimant for the Exodus.

Shalom,
Praxeas
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/