Freethought & Rationalism Archive

NOGO · 07-11-2004, 05:42 PM

I would like to explore the link between drugs and speaking in tongues or any form of inspired speach.

People on drugs spoke meaningless words while someone else explained its meaning. A saying from God himself ie his Word who had come down to earth and spoke to the community through a chosen believer.

Anybody have read anything about a possible link.
I have read the Sacred Mushroom and the Cross. As I recall John M. Allegro does make this link.

Dragon · 07-12-2004, 12:53 AM

Nowonder he had all those "visions"...

Clivedurdle · 07-12-2004, 06:22 AM

Isn't all of this easily testable? There must be archaelogical evidence in ancient churches of interesting substances. DNA and similar tests can now identify the most amazing stuff.

Can't we experiment with some recipes?

What do the vatican and eastern orthodox churches say about the ingredients of the annointing oils?

Isn't it more likely the destruction of the temple and the ending of sacrifices also ended the use of the holy oil by the High Priests?

Can the book of Hebrews be seen as a justification of spreading this gospel and christianity be understand as a diaspora to the whole world of the annointing oil? It would have revolutionary effects!

I was brought up in Assemblies of God, and the theology of the Holy Spirit being the same as the Holy annointing oil does make sense. Vegetable oil is so sad.

I agree drugs don't cause our actions, but they have very interesting effects. In Britain, tea, with sugar, chocolate and coffee was the drug backbone of the Industrial Revolution. Were the visions that built the cathedrals in medieval times driven by holy communion and oil?

PS, the marketing possibilities of this holy oil! Where do I patent it!!!

Clivedurdle · 07-12-2004, 02:43 PM

I would like to explore the link between drugs and speaking in tongues or any form of inspired speach.

I think it is very likely to be a direct link.

http://www.pdxnorml.org/mj-bible.html

Quote:

1 Corinthians 11:23 "For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24 And when he had given thanks, he break it and said, Take, eat, this is my body, which is broken for you; this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, which he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood; this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink of this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat of this bread, and drink of this cup of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and let him eat of the bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."

Christ said, "Do this in remembrance of me." Here the original unity of man with God is restored. In general the reception of the Holy Spirit is connected with the actual realization, the inward experiencing of God.

Marijuana has been referred to as a mild euphoric (the producer of a feeling of well-being) that produces a profound religious experience of a mystical and transcendental nature. This religious experience is said to be brought about by the stirring of deeply buried, unconscious sensitivities so that one experiences ultimate reality or the divine and confirms the feeling of the worshipper that he has been in the presence of God and has assimilated some of His powers.

To be lifted above sense to behold the beatific vision and become "incorporate" in God is the end sought in ecstasy. The priest or mystic in enthusiasm or ecstasy enjoys the beatific vision by entering into communion with God and by undergoing deification. The experience of ecstasy, states Mircea Eliade, one of the foremost authorities on religion, is a timeless primary phenomenon. Psychological experience of rapture, he continues, are fundamental to the human condition and hence known to the whole of archaic humanity. (Some of the synonyms of rapture are bliss, beatitude, transport, exaltation.

flintknapper · 07-12-2004, 02:45 PM

I can't add much to this enlightened discussion, but I used to read "High TImes" magazine years ago. There were frequent references, and also pictures, of oil they called "hash oil". One red-colored type was called "Red Assassin", another was golden colored and called "Honey Oil". This is basically hashish that has been cooked down and concentrated. I've smoked it, and I assure you it will knock your dick-string loose.
When I look at the present day Middle-east, I see a bunch of potheads. In Lebanon, the Syrian controlled Bekaa Valley is the hub of hashish production.
It's the sale of hashish that pays for all the Mercedes you see in a bombed out Beriut.
I was told by a Moroccan from the town of Fez that I met in Italy, that every Moroccan male between the ages of 8 and 80 smokes a large quantity of hashish daily.
On the news media, I see people smoking hookahs in Iraq and in Egypt, but no mention of the contents of the pipe are conveyed in the news clip. It would be no surprise for the Pope to deny any use of cannibis during Jesus' time. The west runs on alcohol, the middle-east on pot.

Clivedurdle · 07-12-2004, 03:08 PM

http://www.e-church.com/Blog-detail....=8&BloggerID=1

This is interesting and it includes krazytamak's article.

NOGO · 07-12-2004, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Clivedurdle
I think it is very likely to be a direct link.

Thanks, but I was interested in the link with inspired speach in particular and not religious feelings in general.

Clivedurdle · 07-13-2004, 04:33 AM

NOGO

Following are lengthy threads, but contain fascinating stuff. Not much on direct link with drugs, as you don't need them to "SIT". Self hypnosis and similar are main themes.

http://p067.ezboard.com/fgwnnfrm12.s...icID=594.topic

http://www.aimoo.com/forum/postview....yword1=tongues

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...hlight=Tongues

Rick Sumner · 07-13-2004, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Kirby

I would like to bring this theory before a scholarly audience in some way, perhaps by publishing an article in a journal. One thing that is necessary, though, is to replace references to web pages to books and articles whenever possible. Do you think you could help me with a bibliography of sources that I could use to substantiate the medical/scientific aspects? I would also welcome sources on the historical aspects, although I will have less trouble finding those.

What would such a presentation suggest? That the oil contained hallucinogenic materials? Or that the oil had medicinal qualities? Or both?

Regards,
Rick Sumner

Peter Kirby · 07-16-2004, 11:29 AM

I would be more interested in looking at the psychotropic effects (if any) of the oil than its use as medicine.

best,
Peter Kirby

07-12-2004, 06:22 AM	#53
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Evidence! Isn't all of this easily testable? There must be archaelogical evidence in ancient churches of interesting substances. DNA and similar tests can now identify the most amazing stuff. Can't we experiment with some recipes? What do the vatican and eastern orthodox churches say about the ingredients of the annointing oils? Isn't it more likely the destruction of the temple and the ending of sacrifices also ended the use of the holy oil by the High Priests? Can the book of Hebrews be seen as a justification of spreading this gospel and christianity be understand as a diaspora to the whole world of the annointing oil? It would have revolutionary effects! I was brought up in Assemblies of God, and the theology of the Holy Spirit being the same as the Holy annointing oil does make sense. Vegetable oil is so sad. I agree drugs don't cause our actions, but they have very interesting effects. In Britain, tea, with sugar, chocolate and coffee was the drug backbone of the Industrial Revolution. Were the visions that built the cathedrals in medieval times driven by holy communion and oil? PS, the marketing possibilities of this holy oil! Where do I patent it!!!

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07-11-2004, 05:42 PM	#51
NOGO Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 1,562	I would like to explore the link between drugs and speaking in tongues or any form of inspired speach. People on drugs spoke meaningless words while someone else explained its meaning. A saying from God himself ie his Word who had come down to earth and spoke to the community through a chosen believer. Anybody have read anything about a possible link. I have read the Sacred Mushroom and the Cross. As I recall John M. Allegro does make this link.

07-12-2004, 12:53 AM	#52
Dragon Veteran Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: CA Posts: 1,279	Nowonder he had all those "visions"...

07-12-2004, 02:45 PM	#55
flintknapper Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: A Windswept Hill on the Prairie Peninsula Posts: 1,073	I can't add much to this enlightened discussion, but I used to read "High TImes" magazine years ago. There were frequent references, and also pictures, of oil they called "hash oil". One red-colored type was called "Red Assassin", another was golden colored and called "Honey Oil". This is basically hashish that has been cooked down and concentrated. I've smoked it, and I assure you it will knock your dick-string loose. When I look at the present day Middle-east, I see a bunch of potheads. In Lebanon, the Syrian controlled Bekaa Valley is the hub of hashish production. It's the sale of hashish that pays for all the Mercedes you see in a bombed out Beriut. I was told by a Moroccan from the town of Fez that I met in Italy, that every Moroccan male between the ages of 8 and 80 smokes a large quantity of hashish daily. On the news media, I see people smoking hookahs in Iraq and in Egypt, but no mention of the contents of the pipe are conveyed in the news clip. It would be no surprise for the Pope to deny any use of cannibis during Jesus' time. The west runs on alcohol, the middle-east on pot.

07-12-2004, 03:08 PM	#56
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	http://www.e-church.com/Blog-detail....=8&BloggerID=1 This is interesting and it includes krazytamak's article.

07-13-2004, 04:33 AM	#58
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	NOGO Following are lengthy threads, but contain fascinating stuff. Not much on direct link with drugs, as you don't need them to "SIT". Self hypnosis and similar are main themes. http://p067.ezboard.com/fgwnnfrm12.s...icID=594.topic http://www.aimoo.com/forum/postview....yword1=tongues http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...hlight=Tongues

07-16-2004, 11:29 AM	#60
Peter Kirby Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor Posts: 4,035	I would be more interested in looking at the psychotropic effects (if any) of the oil than its use as medicine. best, Peter Kirby

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