Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ninewands · 06-11-2007, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notapadawan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Occam's Aftershave

One thing we've learned from AFDave over the last year is that he is completely unembarrassable. He's been caught in blatant lie after blatant lie, caught quote-mining, caught fabricating and adding his own 'data' to legitimate scientific papers via Photoshop, caught going back after the fact and editing his old posts to produce his own "retro-history". And every time this dishonesty has been pointed out to him, his response has always been along the lines of "well, I'm doing God's work and have done nothing wrong in His eyes." It's the Liar-For-Jesus "the ends justify the means" credo to the Nth degree.

That is sad. If this is true, it is no wonder Christians are laughed at and scorned.

Well, lying for Jesus IS a long and honored tradition in Christianity ...

Occam's Aftershave · 06-11-2007, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notapadawan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Occam's Aftershave

One thing we've learned from AFDave over the last year is that he is completely unembarrassable. He's been caught in blatant lie after blatant lie, caught quote-mining, caught fabricating and adding his own 'data' to legitimate scientific papers via Photoshop, caught going back after the fact and editing his old posts to produce his own "retro-history". And every time this dishonesty has been pointed out to him, his response has always been along the lines of "well, I'm doing God's work and have done nothing wrong in His eyes." It's the Liar-For-Jesus "the ends justify the means" credo to the Nth degree.

That is sad. If this is true, it is no wonder Christians are laughed at and scorned.

Almost all Christians I know are good, honest, honorable people. It's only the arrogant and shameless prevaricators like AFDave Hawkins who earn getting laughed at and scorned.

notapadawan · 06-11-2007, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninewands

Quote:

Originally Posted by notapadawan

That is sad. If this is true, it is no wonder Christians are laughed at and scorned.

Well, lying for Jesus IS a long and honored tradition in Christianity ...

You do realize Josephus' citation is not a forgery?

This was attested by Mark Hopkins in the 1800's. I suggest you read about it. Quite interesting.

espritch · 06-11-2007, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notapadawan

I am only stating that we don't have a complete picture. The evidence COULD be there.

It could be there. But so far, no such evidence has been found. Therefore, the most complete picture we can currently draw doesn't include the Israelites, plagues of frogs, or Pharaoh being drowned in the Red Sea. You would think that if such things had happened, at least some references to the events would have been discovered by now. I guess it made a bigger impression on the Israelites than on the Egyptians.

Quote:

It may not have been found yet. AS the linked article suggested, there are many places that haven't been discovered yet that could provide the evidence.

For you and others to dismiss the Bible accounts due to no discovered evidence, shows a clear bias.

No evidence for a discontinuation of Egyptian history due to a world destroying flood has been found either. But I'm sure we'll dig it up any day now (or else the ancient Egyptians managed to ignore some pretty cataclysmic events).

notapadawan · 06-11-2007, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by espritch

It could be there. But so far, no such evidence has been found. Therefore, the most complete picture we can currently draw doesn't include the Israelites, plagues of frogs, or Pharaoh being drowned in the Red Sea. You would think that if such things had happened, at least some references to the events would have been discovered by now. I guess it made a bigger impression on the Israelites than on the Egyptians.

I am not sure the Bible teaches Pharoah personally led the charge and drowned in the Red Sea. But lets not let this get in the way of the current discussion on Genesis.

Quote:

No evidence for a discontinuation of Egyptian history due to a world destroying flood has been found either. But I'm sure we'll dig it up any day now (or else the ancient Egyptians managed to ignore some pretty cataclysmic events).

If the Flood occurred before Egyptian History, why would there be a break in it?

Oolon Colluphid · 06-12-2007, 04:06 AM

Looks like I'll have to remind everyone that afdave is a registered user here. Read the Rules again guys.

Oolon, E/C Moderator

gregor · 06-12-2007, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notapadawan

You do realize Josephus' citation is not a forgery?

This was attested by Mark Hopkins in the 1800's. I suggest you read about it. Quite interesting.

This is a tangent and should be raised in BC&H. I welcome you to go there.

However, I suggest you read scholarship on the TF. With near unanimity, critical scholars agree that there is an interpolation [the term forgery is not apporpriate] in the TF where later Christian writers have inserted terms into the text.

Dutch_labrat · 06-13-2007, 01:01 AM

To be honest I don't expect much from this debate but let's give Dave the benefit of doubt.

The debate has just properly started and he must be given a change to show what he can do. It may even be educational.

Jet Black · 06-13-2007, 08:37 AM

I have removed the comment from afdave and replies to it from this thread. I might remind afdave that he should not participate in this thread until the debate is over, and if he does do it again, would other users please not reply to it.

thanks

Jet Black [EC] Mod

Dave Hawkins · 06-13-2007, 08:41 AM

Sorry, mod. Didn't see that rule until now. I'll refrain from posting here.

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06-12-2007, 04:06 AM	#36
Oolon Colluphid Contributor Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Alibi: ego ipse hinc extermino Posts: 12,591	Looks like I'll have to remind everyone that afdave is a registered user here. Read the Rules again guys. Oolon, E/C Moderator

06-13-2007, 01:01 AM	#38
Dutch_labrat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Leiden, The Netherlands Posts: 970	To be honest I don't expect much from this debate but let's give Dave the benefit of doubt. The debate has just properly started and he must be given a change to show what he can do. It may even be educational.

06-13-2007, 08:37 AM	#39
Jet Black Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: (GSV) Lasting Damage Posts: 10,734	I have removed the comment from afdave and replies to it from this thread. I might remind afdave that he should not participate in this thread until the debate is over, and if he does do it again, would other users please not reply to it. thanks Jet Black [EC] Mod

06-13-2007, 08:41 AM	#40
Dave Hawkins Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,375	Sorry, mod. Didn't see that rule until now. I'll refrain from posting here.

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