Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Julio · 03-13-2009, 03:21 AM

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Originally Posted by IamJoseph

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julio

Moses INVENTED Jehovah – Exodus 6:3. He wrote Genesis or small parts thereof.

Much would have to be explained in tangent. Try to list your ancesters just three generations back - their correct names, dob and dods and addresses. Moses appears to have mastered this feat for a period of some 2500 years before him - perhaps with a magical time machine and a super PC - no librararies or photocopy machines either?

Then he declared the universe is finite with a beginning; recalled all the corrrect life form grads [species], veg to humans; dated the advent of human speech [still not negatable today], introduced the day and week, and the oldest and most accurate calendar in existence. Not to mention a host of laws followed exclusively by the world's institutions today. Medicine was also introduced in the Mosaic books - separating itsef from the occult for the first time with the introduction of contagious, infectious deseases, and their treatment, ID & quarantine [Leprosy]. I find the greatest census, in their millions, also in the Mosaic books - and all in the first alphabetical books too.

Then he became more believed in than any other human on the face of the earth: 2B chrstians, 1.2 B muslims and 14M Jews. What is your yardstick of comprables here - I'm listening? :constern01:

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He is the one who writes about this variation of El. But above all, Jehovah is a MAD demiurge in deeds. Therefore: he is a MALE idol to scare illiterate slaves.

No idols, no male, notwithstanding the limitations of language and being lost in translation. How can you allocate as male what is declared as varied from anything in the universe?

You can believe in conjecture and supposition at your own peril.
Moses is a hero to those who don’t think.
He is the prototype of the brutal religious dictator.
Moses was the first terrorist in the Middle East and proud of it!
He killed a million people in his lifetime.
He went up the mount to meet his idol “Jehovah Annunaki” who gave him the Law where Jehovah used his own hot finger to burn the commandment “Thou shalt not kill!” on the stone plate, but as soon as Moses arrived at the camp he ORDERED the killing of THREE THOUSAND of his followers FOR NOTHING really serious!! Exodus 3:28.
Now, you believe Moses at your own peril, I repeat.

Julio · 03-13-2009, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julio

OK. But what if there is neither a finite nor an infinite universe?

Before this goes on the table - you have to nominate a third option.
You mean like:
'NO MAN SHALL KNOW ME AND LIVE'?
Or:
'AS THE HEAVENS ARE HIGHER THAN THE EARTH SO ARE MY THOUGHTS HIGHER THAN YOURS'?

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Therefore: Genesis is not the truth in universal definitions.

Negations per se do not qualify. And we have no alternative to Genesis - I studied all of QM and the latest state of art science books. :huh:

The third “option” is “The Dream”. You’re dreaming; I’m dreaming; and we’ll never wake up!
But, sure, we do not know who/what put us to sleep!…

IamJoseph · 03-13-2009, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julio

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

Before this goes on the table - you have to nominate a third option.
You mean like:
'NO MAN SHALL KNOW ME AND LIVE'?
Or:
'AS THE HEAVENS ARE HIGHER THAN THE EARTH SO ARE MY THOUGHTS HIGHER THAN YOURS'?
Negations per se do not qualify. And we have no alternative to Genesis - I studied all of QM and the latest state of art science books. :huh:

The third “option” is “The Dream”. You’re dreaming; I’m dreaming; and we’ll never wake up!
But, sure, we do not know who/what put us to sleep!…

dreams don't last forever and are not physical reality. However, even a dream must have a dream maker - so its back to Creationism when we wake up.

All I am saying is that Creationism is a legitimate premise on the table, and is scientifically and mathematically valid [cause & effect; nothing happens with ONE] - it gets negated only when we have a proven alternative. We are not there yet - so there cannot be a ridiculing of what is legitimate without alternatives.

IamJoseph · 03-13-2009, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julio

He is the prototype of the brutal religious dictator.

Compared to which other religion or its figurehead? Moses declared equal justive for all - the stranger and the inhabitant.

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Moses was the first terrorist in the Middle East and proud of it!
He killed a million people in his lifetime.

One cannot be a terrorist in his own motherland. If the texts are examined, the Israelites were defending against genocide themselves. The Israelites and the Jews have never stolen anyone's lands or heritage in all their 4000 year history. How many others can claim that?

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He went up the mount to meet his idol “Jehovah Annunaki” who gave him the Law where Jehovah used his own hot finger to burn the commandment “Thou shalt not kill!” on the stone plate, but as soon as Moses arrived at the camp he ORDERED the killing of THREE THOUSAND of his followers FOR NOTHING really serious!! Exodus 3:28.
Now, you believe Moses at your own peril, I repeat.

Idol? Surely your talking about a different religion. I would say that if an accounting was made, Moses would score the highest: the first biggest murderers of humans was medevial christianity - far more than Rome, even when the last two centuries are not factored in. The second would be islam: over 70M were masacred in India alone. In contrast, all that can be said of Moses and the Israelites is solely vested in their own homeland - nothing outside this vicinity. :wave:

Julio · 03-13-2009, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julio

The third “option” is “The Dream”. You’re dreaming; I’m dreaming; and we’ll never wake up!
But, sure, we do not know who/what put us to sleep!…

dreams don't last forever and are not physical reality. However, even a dream must have a dream maker - so its back to Creationism when we wake up.

All I am saying is that Creationism is a legitimate premise on the table, and is scientifically and mathematically valid [cause & effect; nothing happens with ONE] - it gets negated only when we have a proven alternative. We are not there yet - so there cannot be a ridiculing of what is legitimate without alternatives.

Agree with you.
There is plausibility for Creationism. However, NOT through a source, agent or evidence like Moses! Please, let us discuss that young-planet theory, but for goodness sake and in the name of all gods in the pantheon, let us leave Moses out of the picture.
And, by the way, since we’re going to discard Moses, we have also, by natural selection, to reject the gods and/or demiurges he is connected to.
Let’s go.

Julio · 03-13-2009, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julio

He is the prototype of the brutal religious dictator.

Compared to which other religion or its figurehead? Moses declared equal justive for all - the stranger and the inhabitant.

One cannot be a terrorist in his own motherland. If the texts are examined, the Israelites were defending against genocide themselves. The Israelites and the Jews have never stolen anyone's lands or heritage in all their 4000 year history. How many others can claim that?

Quote:

He went up the mount to meet his idol “Jehovah Annunaki” who gave him the Law where Jehovah used his own hot finger to burn the commandment “Thou shalt not kill!” on the stone plate, but as soon as Moses arrived at the camp he ORDERED the killing of THREE THOUSAND of his followers FOR NOTHING really serious!! Exodus 3:28.
Now, you believe Moses at your own peril, I repeat.

Idol? Surely your talking about a different religion. I would say that if an accounting was made, Moses would score the highest: the first biggest murderers of humans was medevial christianity - far more than Rome, even when the last two centuries are not factored in. The second would be islam: over 70M were masacred in India alone. In contrast, all that can be said of Moses and the Israelites is solely vested in their own homeland - nothing outside this vicinity. :wave:

No. Moses committed many atrocities to ROB others of their land!
That is biblical.
Take the Midianites, relatives of his own wife.
He simply wiped out that tribe. For the sole purpose of ROBBING them.
In gold, he stole the equivalent to 10 millions dollars in today’s money. Number 31. (He wanted the gold to buy contraband weapons).
Moses wanted to conquer Egypt for himself, using the slaves as fodder in the battles, but he realized Pharaoh was too powerful.
Originally he wanted to go to the desert a three-day walk to “worship/sacrifice to” his god, “Jehovah”, to organize the militias.
Exodus 3:18.
Later, he lied to his future readers, by putting the story as if Jehovah had told him to run away from Egypt!
Moses was a big time liar, a choreographer with some native talent.
But, of course, first of all we have to prove the existence of that heroic patriarch and the rest of the choreography.
Don’t count on me to get involved in that search, please!
Later he decreed “Life for life”, but never paid for the life of a policeman he took earlier in his madness.

Julio · 03-13-2009, 05:40 AM

“… the Israelites were defending against genocide themselves.”

It is a fallacious argument, if we consider the brainteaser that this “special people” had been organized by the “Lord of Hosts” a most brutal idol in the region, incapable of sorting things out WHEN things were of minor seriousness!
Don’t come here defending Moses and his idol, as if the whole Middle East region was against them!
If the situation was so bad that they had to defend against genocide, man, who are we going to blame for that evil situation?!…
You see, David, later, would sing, “Jehovah is my shepherd, I shall not want”, the crook!!
He had an army of almost ONE MILLION conscripts!
It wasn’t any Lord that protected him: it was an army of the best swords in the lands!
The Bible is full of holes, dear friend.

show_no_mercy · 03-13-2009, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

Think about it. You inhabit a finite universe - which means everything in it never existed at one time.

False.

The hydrogen in the water in your body has existed for all time. Literally.

Lógos Sokratikós · 03-13-2009, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConsequentAtheist

You confuse manifest fact with pretentious drivel.

It takes two to tango.

Think about it. You inhabit a finite universe - which means everything in it never existed at one time. So how can a ONE sustain itself - when there is nothing else. How can you have a big bang when there is nothing else to bang into. How can the universe expand - when there is yet nowhere to expand to. How can you have a male by himself - then another equivaent female edition suddenly appear - and vallah! - both fit each other exactly like they were taylor made to order. Pretentious drivel - or a legitimate premise?

So you believe the big bang banged into... God?? That must have hurt.

And you believe a male suddenly appeared and then a female, just like that? Go to school, learn something about the history of human population: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human#History http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

Taylor made or tailor made? Who's "Taylor"? I thought you were publicizing Jehovah as the author of alakazam? :huh: So Taylor made you...

Julio · 03-13-2009, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julio

He is the prototype of the brutal religious dictator.

Moses would score the highest: :

Take Exodus 34, where some inconspicuous and subtle “interpolator” puts Moses as telling lies twice. First, in verse 1 Jehovah says he is going to write the Law on the second set of tablets, which is later written by Moses instead, verse 28.
Then it says that Moses fasted 40 days, totally abstaining from eating or drinking anything!! That is hilarious. Moses [or his amanuensis] was, obviously, writing to superstitious and illiterate folk, those who looked at him as the “Holy Father” of their days!
John Gills [commenting on the passage] offers the suggestion that maybe he also went without sleep for that period!… Yes, no farting, too.

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03-13-2009, 05:40 AM	#37
Julio Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Johannesburg Posts: 5,187	“… the Israelites were defending against genocide themselves.” It is a fallacious argument, if we consider the brainteaser that this “special people” had been organized by the “Lord of Hosts” a most brutal idol in the region, incapable of sorting things out WHEN things were of minor seriousness! Don’t come here defending Moses and his idol, as if the whole Middle East region was against them! If the situation was so bad that they had to defend against genocide, man, who are we going to blame for that evil situation?!… You see, David, later, would sing, “Jehovah is my shepherd, I shall not want”, the crook!! He had an army of almost ONE MILLION conscripts! *It wasn’t any Lord that protected him*: it was an army of the best swords in the lands! The Bible is full of holes, dear friend.

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