Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Mat · 03-25-2010, 04:00 PM

Is there any recent material or commentary that deals with the supposed polytheism in these Tanach passages. Need it for my dissertatation.

John Kesler · 03-25-2010, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mat

Is there any recent material or commentary that deals with the supposed polytheism in these Tanach passages. Need it for my dissertatation.

This post may help.

Mat · 03-26-2010, 02:55 AM

Thank you for you're response and the link but that post contains materail concering the Henotheism of Deuteronomy 32 and not passages like Gen 1:26, Ps 82. Looking for material/commentary on these verses.

John Kesler · 03-26-2010, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mat

Thank you for you're response and the link but that post contains materail concering the Henotheism of Deuteronomy 32 and not passages like Gen 1:26, Ps 82. Looking for material/commentary on these verses.

Read the referenced post again. It mentions Psalm 82. For example, it states:

Quote:

Here the figure God takes his stand in the assembly. The name God was understood in the tradition, and perhaps at the time of the text's original composition as well, to be none other than Yahweh; the name El seems to be involved with the expression "assembly of El" (preferable to "divine assembly," given El's title, Elyon, in verse 6). In any case, the assembly consists of all the gods of the world, for all those other gods are condemned to death in verse 6:

I myself presumed that You are gods, Sons of the Most High (Elyon), Yet like humans you will die, And fall like any prince.

See here for more on Genesis.

ApostateAbe · 03-26-2010, 09:50 AM

For polytheism as opposed to henotheism, I suggest that you stick to the very earliest material, mainly the book of Genesis. The clues exist for certain in the book of Genesis, but not in later sources such as Psalms. If you are writing a graduate-school dissertation, then reading people's arguments on a web forum is probably not going to help much. You need plenty of titles that you can put in your bibliography. I suggest doing a search on Google Scholar, and a search on your library website, or call someone working at a sizable library of a college of religious studies in your region, find titles, and do an interlibrary loan (where you can order the book shipped to your own library from another library).

Loomis · 03-26-2010, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mat

Thank you for you're response and the link but that post contains materail concering the Henotheism of Deuteronomy 32 and not passages like Gen 1:26, Ps 82. Looking for material/commentary on these verses.

Psalm 82 uses the same paradigm as Deuteronomy 32:7-9. There is good reason to think that Elohim #1 (in verse 82:1a) originally read ‘Yahweh’. The controversial issue is if Yahweh is playing the same character in both episodes.

Genesis 1:26 is part of the first creation story. John Day argues that it is based on Psalm 104 (and that makes sense to me). If that is true then the “us” in Genesis 1:26 would be God’s “messengers” and “attendants” mentioned in Psalm 104:4.

Note too that the “messengers” and “attendants” of Psalm 104:4 can be traced back to Yam’s messengers in the Baal epic.

semiopen · 03-28-2010, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostateAbe

For polytheism as opposed to henotheism, I suggest that you stick to the very earliest material, mainly the book of Genesis. The clues exist for certain in the book of Genesis, but not in later sources such as Psalms. If you are writing a graduate-school dissertation, then reading people's arguments on a web forum is probably not going to help much. You need plenty of titles that you can put in your bibliography. I suggest doing a search on Google Scholar, and a search on your library website, or call someone working at a sizable library of a college of religious studies in your region, find titles, and do an interlibrary loan (where you can order the book shipped to your own library from another library).

These are great comments Abe, thanks.

I'm curious about your statement about Genesis being the "earliest material." The six day creation and day of rest is related to the seven day week. My impression is that the creation myth in Genesis was probably written after the seven day week was instituted and a popular guess is post exilic.

JP2 · 03-28-2010, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semiopen

I'm curious about your statement about Genesis being the "earliest material." The six day creation and day of rest is related to the seven day week. My impression is that the creation myth in Genesis was probably written after the seven day week was instituted and a popular guess is post exilic.

Well that applies to the P material in Gen. 1:1-2:3 (the first creation account) but I presume that Abe is referring to the earlier J/E material in Genesis.

semiopen · 03-29-2010, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP2

Quote:

Originally Posted by semiopen

I'm curious about your statement about Genesis being the "earliest material." The six day creation and day of rest is related to the seven day week. My impression is that the creation myth in Genesis was probably written after the seven day week was instituted and a popular guess is post exilic.

Well that applies to the P material in Gen. 1:1-2:3 (the first creation account) but I presume that Abe is referring to the earlier J/E material in Genesis.

Yes, I sort of figured that.

Even so, some of the psalms seem older than J.

rhutchin · 03-29-2010, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mat

Is there any recent material or commentary that deals with the supposed polytheism in these Tanach passages. Need it for my dissertatation.

If you have not already investigated the concept of "the majestic plural," you can look it up on Wikipedia - not a lot but a basic intro. You can then follow up with Elohim which has a couple sources.

A study on Hebrew singular and plural with respect to Elohim is here:

http://www.israelofgod.org/elohim1.htm

The guy seems to know what he is talking about.

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03-25-2010, 04:00 PM	#1
Mat Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Uk, London Posts: 16	Gen 1:26, 3:6,3:22, and Ps 82:6-Polytheism Is there any recent material or commentary that deals with the supposed polytheism in these Tanach passages. Need it for my dissertatation.

03-26-2010, 02:55 AM	#3
Mat Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Uk, London Posts: 16	Thank you for you're response and the link but that post contains materail concering the Henotheism of Deuteronomy 32 and not passages like Gen 1:26, Ps 82. Looking for material/commentary on these verses.

03-26-2010, 09:50 AM	#5
ApostateAbe Contributor Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: MT Posts: 10,656	For polytheism as opposed to henotheism, I suggest that you stick to the very earliest material, mainly the book of Genesis. The clues exist for certain in the book of Genesis, but not in later sources such as Psalms. If you are writing a graduate-school dissertation, then reading people's arguments on a web forum is probably not going to help much. You need plenty of titles that you can put in your bibliography. I suggest doing a search on Google Scholar, and a search on your library website, or call someone working at a sizable library of a college of religious studies in your region, find titles, and do an interlibrary loan (where you can order the book shipped to your own library from another library).

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