Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Dogfish · 01-09-2008, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Message to sonofone: Since you have admitted that the Bible contains errors, how do you decide which parts are true, and which parts are false?

Consider the following from a Christian web site:

http://www.allabouttruth.org/all-scr...ficial-faq.htm

Quote:

Originally Posted by allabouttruth.org

All Scripture is Inspired of God and Beneficial

How do we know that all Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial to us?

The Bible tells us that all Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial.

2 Peter 1:20-21 says, "Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."

1 Corinthians 2:13 states, "This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words." God impressed man with His message, then the individual author, using his own style of expression based on his personal, educational, and cultural resources put the message into words.

Romans 10:8 phrased it this way: ". . .The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart. . ." God communicated to the author the content that He wanted written, and the author phrased the content with his skill, style, mind, and language. We can be certain that, although the very words came from each author, the message was as God had intended and is authentic, reliable, and infallible.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 reads, "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." We are told that the Bible is not only the words of God, but it has great benefit to us.

Colossians 3:16 admonishes us to "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God."

The psalmist tells us in Psalms 119:11 that God's Word protects us from sin: "I have hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you." From God's very first contact with man in Genesis to the final phrases of Revelation, He gave Scriptures to guide man's conduct.

However, man did not obey God's instruction from the beginning and sin entered the world through Adam. Since that time man has continued to challenge God's Word through disobedience. We have failed to see the tremendous benefits and blessings we could have received and instead suffered the consequences of our actions: sickness, wars, plagues, and curses.

Deuteronomy 30:19-20 pleads with us to make the right choice: "This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live and that you may love the LORD your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. . ."

The only way to truly understand the concept of blessings that come through obedience and following God's words is to put them to the test. If we want God to bless us and to care for us and keep His wonderful promises to us, then we must submit to the guidance that He has given us for living. I know that in my own life, I sometimes see God's words as a bit odd next to the standards set by this world and therefore find them hard to comprehend and follow. Yet when I challenge those odd words by obeying them, I have found God to do exactly as He said He would do.

For example, Matthew 5:44 tells us, "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." That is a very strange concept in this world. Yet when my husband and I started praying for his very difficult boss, the entire work situation and their relationship changed. It was phenomenal! His boss seemed to become more personable and somehow less demanding. "Give and it will be given you. . ." (Luke 6:38).

How can you give and yet get back more? I have found it impossible to out give God. It is when I give up trying to solve situations on my own and seek wisdom from God's words in the Bible, that I find the answers and solutions that I could not find on my own. When I regularly read the Bible and apply it in my life, I begin to clearly see God, and learn to understand His plan for my life. "I applied my heart to know, to search and seek out wisdom and the reason for things" (Ecclesiastes 7:25 NKJV).

How can you be a Christian and claim that the Bible contains errrors?

Cafeteria Christian?

Meatros · 01-09-2008, 07:05 PM

I've always found it interesting what other's have mentioned; ie, god lied, the serpent told the truth.

A&E didn't 'die' when they ate the apple (fruit, whatever) from the tree of good and evil.

The fact (according to the bible) is that the reason they died had nothing to do with eating from the tree of knowledge - their deaths were a result of being denied the fruit from the tree of life.

Makes me wonder - suppose they never ate the knowledge fruit, but also never ate from the tree of life - they would have died anyway.

sonofone · 01-09-2008, 07:44 PM

This message is not just for you John although you and I have been conversing back and forth quite a bit since I joined this forum. I really have enjoyed my time here so far and your brutal honesty is refreshing. I have always admired individuals who are sincere,in there pursuit of understanding.

I've never joined any forum for the purpose of debate.I don't even join to convince others of what I believe. I share and learn,even here.I have never had a conversation or talked firsthand to an atheist or agnostic.

I have read several post heard different arguments and consider myself blessed for having been here.If I were truly desirous of changing or influencing anyone here,I certainly would not have led out by telling you I enjoyed your post on dismantling the bible I hold as a means of defining my salvation.Nether would I have shared my personal testimony concerning the trauma I experienced in maintaining my faith.

I sense that you would love to meet your match so to speak,to give you reason to come out of place being agnostic has you in.I'm sorry if I have not been able to provide that challenge for you. Perhaps it's no consolation to you that you are in my prayers and I genuinely have love and compassion for your current state.

If it's not already painfully obvious I am no Christian apologetic,never claimed to be.Perhaps if I continue to stay here one day I will be,and I'll have all of you to thank for it.As it stands already each of you has already been a tremendous blessing to me,with your sincere questions and thought provoking comments.

I believe I'll stick around as long as you guys will have me.

Amaleq13 · 01-09-2008, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meatros

I've always found it interesting what other's have mentioned; ie, god lied, the serpent told the truth.

A&E didn't 'die' when they ate the apple (fruit, whatever) from the tree of good and evil.

The standard dodge is a claim that God meant a "spiritual death"

Johnny Skeptic · 01-09-2008, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofone

This message is not just for you John although you and I have been conversing back and forth quite a bit since I joined this forum. I really have enjoyed my time here so far and your brutal honesty is refreshing. I have always admired individuals who are sincere,in there pursuit of understanding.

I've never joined any forum for the purpose of debate.I don't even join to convince others of what I believe. I share and learn,even here. I have never had a conversation or talked firsthand to an atheist or agnostic.

I have read several post heard different arguments and consider myself blessed for having been here.If I were truly desirous of changing or influencing anyone here,I certainly would not have led out by telling you I enjoyed your post on dismantling the bible I hold as a means of defining my salvation.Nether would I have shared my personal testimony concerning the trauma I experienced in maintaining my faith.

I sense that you would love to meet your match so to speak,to give you reason to come out of place being agnostic has you in.I'm sorry if I have not been able to provide that challenge for you. Perhaps it's no consolation to you that you are in my prayers and I genuinely have love and compassion for your current state.

If it's not already painfully obvious I am no Christian apologetic,never claimed to be.Perhaps if I continue to stay here one day I will be, and I'll have all of you to thank for it. As it stands already each of you has already been a tremendous blessing to me,with your sincere questions and thought provoking comments.

I believe I'll stick around as long as you guys will have me.

The rules allow you to stay around as long as you like as long as you keep the rules. As far as people replying to your posts is concerned, I am not aware of any ways that non-Christians can benefit from your faith only message. I do not see how anything that you have said at this forum could have been of any benefit to anyone except for you. You mentioned that you have a transformed life, but that is not credible evidence for anyone except for you, so all that you were doing was preaching to yourself. Many non-Christian theists have had transformed lives. Even some atheists and agnostics have had transformed lives as a result of love and kindness from other atheists and agnostics.

In my opinion, one of the best arguments against fundamentalist Christianity is God's intention to unmercifully send skeptics to hell for eternity without parole. I would never be able to accept a God like that. Another good argument is that God withholds information that some skeptics would accept if they were aware of it. Another good argument is that God does not fairly distribute the same quality of evidence to everyone. For instance, on one occasion, Jesus told some stubborn skeptics that if they would not believe on his words, to believe on the miracles that he performed. Your faith only argument obviously does not work regarding that case.

Your faith is easily explainable by secular factors. All animals want to survive. Since humans are more intelligent than all other animals, they not only want to survive in this life, but they want to survive eternally, and not just eternally, but eternally in comfort. It is no accident that most or all religions promise eteranl comfort.

I do not expect to convince you to give up Christianity, but I do except that the more posts that you make, the more you will discredit Christianity with your unconvincing comments.

Are you aware that if Christianity is a false religion, fundamentalist Christians have harmed society in many ways?

I doubt that I will spend much more time replying to your posts because you never provide any evidence other than faith, and all theists have faith. The IIDB is a discussion web site. What are you discussing? Faith is not a discussion issue. There is nothing about faith that is worth discussing. If theists of many religions were participating in this thread, and all of them were using faith only arguments, what would be the purpose of that?

sonofone · 01-09-2008, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meatros

I've always found it interesting what other's have mentioned; ie, god lied, the serpent told the truth.

A&E didn't 'die' when they ate the apple (fruit, whatever) from the tree of good and evil.

The standard dodge is a claim that God meant a "spiritual death"

Now thats not fair Amaleq you stole my answer.I have not been able to get consistent consensus on this tree of life.Some say that they ate from it daily to maintain there life,while others say that one bite would have meant life eternal.Everyone I know myself included says that death was instantly spiritually,and eminent physically and passed down through the gene pool.

Amaleq13 · 01-09-2008, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofone

I have not been able to get consistent consensus on this tree of life.

Imagine that. Confusion about how a magical "tree of life" might have worked.

Quote:

Everyone I know myself included says that death was instantly spiritually,and eminent physically and passed down through the gene pool.

Yes, I am familiar with the strained and incoherent "explanations" the faithful are forced to fall back upon when the absurdities of the fable are brought to light.

angelo · 01-10-2008, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofone

I have not been able to get consistent consensus on this tree of life.

Imagine that. Confusion about how a magical "tree of life" might have worked.

Quote:

Everyone I know myself included says that death was instantly spiritually,and eminent physically and passed down through the gene pool.

Yes, I am familiar with the strained and incoherent "explanations" the faithful are forced to fall back upon when the absurdities of the fable are brought to light.

I was under the impresion that only the worst of deluded, ignorant, primitive fundamentalists still believed in the Adam and Ste...er Eve, fable, let alone some kind of magical tree with fruit capable of removing blinkers from people's eyes and allowing them freedom to choose right from wrong. Obviously I'm wrong.:Cheeky:

Dogfish · 01-10-2008, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofone

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

The standard dodge is a claim that God meant a "spiritual death"

Now thats not fair Amaleq you stole my answer.I have not been able to get consistent consensus on this tree of life.Some say that they ate from it daily to maintain there life,while others say that one bite would have meant life eternal.Everyone I know myself included says that death was instantly spiritually,and eminent physically and passed down through the gene pool.

It's a shame you have to try to get "consensus" for the meaning of the word of god. You'd think if he gave a damn, he'd be more clear.

angelo · 01-11-2008, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogfish

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofone

Now thats not fair Amaleq you stole my answer.I have not been able to get consistent consensus on this tree of life.Some say that they ate from it daily to maintain there life,while others say that one bite would have meant life eternal.Everyone I know myself included says that death was instantly spiritually,and eminent physically and passed down through the gene pool.

It's a shame you have to try to get "consensus" for the meaning of the word of god. You'd think if he gave a damn, he'd be more clear.

Maybe he/she would be more clearer if he/she existed at all.
Since he/she hasn't, we have to assume he/she HAS NO existence.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

01-09-2008, 07:05 PM	#62
Meatros Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Virginia Posts: 944	I've always found it interesting what other's have mentioned; ie, god lied, the serpent told the truth. A&E didn't 'die' when they ate the apple (fruit, whatever) from the tree of good and evil. The fact (according to the bible) is that the reason they died had nothing to do with eating from the tree of knowledge - their deaths were a result of being denied the fruit from the tree of life. Makes me wonder - suppose they never ate the knowledge fruit, but also never ate from the tree of life - they would have died anyway.

01-09-2008, 07:44 PM	#63
sonofone Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: southeast Posts: 60	This message is not just for you John although you and I have been conversing back and forth quite a bit since I joined this forum. I really have enjoyed my time here so far and your brutal honesty is refreshing. I have always admired individuals who are sincere,in there pursuit of understanding. I've never joined any forum for the purpose of debate.I don't even join to convince others of what I believe. I share and learn,even here.I have never had a conversation or talked firsthand to an atheist or agnostic. I have read several post heard different arguments and consider myself blessed for having been here.If I were truly desirous of changing or influencing anyone here,I certainly would not have led out by telling you I enjoyed your post on dismantling the bible I hold as a means of defining my salvation.Nether would I have shared my personal testimony concerning the trauma I experienced in maintaining my faith. I sense that you would love to meet your match so to speak,to give you reason to come out of place being agnostic has you in.I'm sorry if I have not been able to provide that challenge for you. Perhaps it's no consolation to you that you are in my prayers and I genuinely have love and compassion for your current state. If it's not already painfully obvious I am no Christian apologetic,never claimed to be.Perhaps if I continue to stay here one day I will be,and I'll have all of you to thank for it.As it stands already each of you has already been a tremendous blessing to me,with your sincere questions and thought provoking comments. I believe I'll stick around as long as you guys will have me.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.