jdlongmire

No, because you limit your minds..."the observable universe is my benchmark!" -- you see more amazing things from virtual reality every day. Why wouldn't any of that be possible with omnipotence?

TySixtus

JD, here's the thing.

The observable universe is the only benchmark. If we can't observe it, yet, then it doesn't matter if it affects us or not.

What amazing things do we see from virtual reality? And keep in mind that VR simulations take place in the observable universe. They are product of it, not seperate from it.

Ty

Adora

Virtual reality is part of the observable universe. It's a simulated illusion, but it is still made of matter and energy, and therefore a physical and objectively existing thing.

Hows this one for the brainsoup: an infinite being cannot exist. That's my no. 1 problem with monotheism right there.

Queen of Swords

So what should my benchmark be? What a Christian says it is, or a Muslim, or a Hindu?

mirage

Yep. You see, the thing about objective evidence is we can discuss it. It can be agreed on. If you want to believe the universe was created by your cat last Thursday that's fine, go ahead and construct a "worldview" that places this at the centrer. You can fix everything else with your time bubbles and the inherent uncertainty of historical evidence. Just don't think that you can ever contribute to a discussion with this. There is no common ground from which to start.

I'm sure that Catholic Convert, unlike you, can agree with some basic starters like deduction and induction.

What difference does it make? You consider objective evidence as secondary.

No, (most of us) have an extremely internally consistent epistemology based only on deduction and induction. Those are neither guesses nor memes.

Let me get this straight: we're "as bad as the fundies" because we try to make reasonable inferences from objective evidence? Because we reject your set of pet beliefs because the null hypothesis looks stronger? By that reasoning every set of beliefs is equally valid.

BadBadBad

Here's a good reason not to believe in God. Here's what goes on in God's churches. Here's what happens right on the altar of God. Here's what God's armies did with Joshua. Here's the God you worship. Here's the story of just one more little sinner child that desparately deserves some of Jesus' neighborly love:

See here for the whole story:

Nyarubuye Rwanda 1994

The killing at Nyarubuye began with an attack on Tutsis at the local marketplace. After this Valentina fled to the church with her family. That afternoon the killers arrived, led by Sylvestre Gacumbitsi, the local mayor. Valentina recognised many of her Hutu neighbours among the more than 30 men who surrounded the church. They carried knives and clubs and were supported by soldiers from the Rwandan army.


Among the gang of men was Denis Bagaruka, a 56-year-old grandfather whose own children went to school with Valentina.


She described what happened next: " First they asked people to hand over their money, saying they would spare those who paid. But after taking the money they killed them anyway. then they started to throw grenades. I saw a man blown up in the air, in pieces, by a grenade. The leader said that we were snakes and that to kill snakes you had to smash their heads.


The killers moved into the terrified crowd of men, women and children, hacking and clubbing as they went. "If they found someone alive they would smash their heads with stones. I saw them take little children and smash their heads together until they were dead. There were children begging for pity but they killed them straight away," she told me. The killings took place over four days. At night the butchers rested and, guarding the perimeter so that nobody would escape.


Other infants, crying on the ground beside their murdered parents, were taken and plunged head first into latrines. One of Valentina's classmates, and angel-faced little boy named Placide, told me how he had seen a man decapitated in front of him and then a pregnant woman cut open as the killing reached its frenzied climax.


"There was so much noise," he recalled. "People were begging for mercy and you could hear the militia saying, 'Catch them, catch them, don't let them get away.'"


Valentina and Placide hid among the bodies, pretending to be dead. Valentina had been struck on the head and hands with a machete and was bleeding heavily. Following her child's instinct, she crawled to her mother's body and lay there. During the killing she had seen the militia murder her father and her 16-year-old brother, Frodise.

sharon45

For a god, yes, of course it is possible. For the christian version of a god, it should be logically impossible though.

No problem. Those answers are still unknown.

Yes, I greatly fear death, I have no interest in being shut off. As far as some kind of afterlife, that is like god's and matter's existence, another question without a proven answer.

capsaicin67

Decorated Altar Boy, here.

I see it as something for which there has certainly not been sufficient proof and that is extremely unlikely, as the supernatural as a whole is without evidence.

The universe could well be that "always". And also that "that's all". I do the same thing with "why do things exist at all?" that I do with "why did that child suffer and that other jerk have a fantastic, full life?" Nature operates with amoral persistence. I can't ignore that. It's an ISNESS. At first that was a bit hard to grasp, but not so much any longer. I file it in the same file as all other Big Questions etc. Lots of things about life are not easy nor full of satisfying meaning necessarily. The universe itself appears like that too. But there remains beauty and pleasure and exploration. Aside from the fact it's the only game in town [that I have a ticket to, which I've already purchased].

I see no reason to think it happens nor any way to tell what does for any serious length of time post mortem.

I wish to go to the Great Council Fire of My Ancestors and Friends in the Great Field of Reeds. Or something. Of course.

But fear is wasted energy.:down: All the rest of humanity has died before me, it must be do-able. In any event it is unavoidable thus far. It's another isness.:huh: Makes this life more precious though too. :thumbs:

GoodLittleAtheist

Because the world makes more sense to me when there is no God. Not a very valid argument, since a theist can say 'the world makes more sense to me when God exists'. But when you boil it all down, that's the most honest answer I can give you.

Oh, I think there certainly could be sufficient proof. I mean, you have sufficient proof that I exist, don't you? And we haven't even met. (Unless you think it is possible that I am a sophisticated computer script or one of those lucky one in a million monkeys pounding a keyboard...) The fact that there isn't sufficient proof of God just leans me further into the 'there is no God' camp.

No. If there was nothing instead of something, I woudn't be able to ask the question.

The death itself I don't fear. I fear being parted from the people I love, the things that I love to do. Of course, once I am dead, I don't think I will be capable of missing it (or capable of anything at all), but the idea of it is unsettling.

Catholic Convert

I'm surprised more don't feel this way.

If I could be convinced it's all over when I die, I would go mad.