John A. Broussard

I have a great deal of difficulty following your arguments, so I'm just pulling out one segment for explanation.

Would you please tell me what you mean in the above instance.

Thanks.

Toto

Those old hippies have not decided that Jesus was a myth. They have generally decided that Jesus was a nice guy, who set impossible standards, but he's going to forgive them in the end anyway so don't sweat it.

The people who really tried to model Jesus were (are) the Catholic Workers, who live in a commune at a near poverty level. They are sweet and completely irrelevant in making the world a better place.

Wallener

The problem with fundamentalism isn't Christianity, it's fundamentalists. People who want to drive down that road will find a vehicle. And if they can't find a vehicle, they'll create one. Christianity could disappear overnight, and it would change nothing vis a vis fundamentalism.

NWT

That is a pointless and self defeating philosophy. You might as well say there will always be conservatives or Nazi's or the Taliban, so you might as well just accept it and do nothing. The fact is that this phenonemon called Religious Dominionism, "i.e. religion trying to control government" is gaining strength, and is potentially as dangerous or more dangerous then the Rise of Nazism was in Germany. And I'm warning you all - take it very seriously - before they end up pushing the button "to bring on the 2nd coming of Christ".

Wallener

Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said or suggested any such thing.

You are talking about symptoms that ultimately mean nothing; I am talking about dealing with the underlying illness. Christianity is not the problem; fundamentalists using Christianity as a vehicle for their personal agendas is the problem. You cannot get rid of fundamentalism by going after Christianity (or Islam or...)

NWT

I really don't get what you are trying to say. To paraphrase, the problem is not really Nazism, it's fundamentalists using Nazism as a vehicle for their personal agendas, substitute any insiduous word for Nazism and you get the same result. I don't care whether they are WASP's or Gay or Chinese, what matters is their propaganda is false, and should be shown to be so. And I'm not talking about going after Christianity, I'm talking about exposing falsehood, and taking a reciprical aggressive stand against those who are trying to subvert science in the name of religion, fundamentalism or right wing extremism - however you want to categorize it.

freigeister

Sure they have. In fact, Tom Harpur could be their poster-boy.



Hmm. How does that square with this?

I suppose that you would say that Christ can't be both a milquetoast and a fire-breather, so he must be a fiction. I, however, have seen both these roles played by a single individual on this very forum.

The old hippys do indeed now prefer the milquetoast Christ. That was my point, that they are trying to reduce him to a friendly little nub, virtually nothing. So it is left to the fundies to claim the firebreather as their own.

The hippys should never have let die the fire of their youth. They should still be singing along with Bob Dylan in Masters of War:

John A. Broussard

Perhaps, but if anyone could have shaken my lack of faith it would have been Dorothy Day.

And to think they're talking about canonizing her. How absolutely repelled she would have been by that idea.

Wallener

It is amazing how easily the black or white, "with us or against us" world view creeps into things. I'll bow out of this conversation now, NWT; you're coming across as a fundie yourself, and that makes conversation pretty unpleasant.

Good luck with your crusade.

NWT

Your quite right, it is amazing how readily you have turned my position into black & white. i.e.
I am opposed to the small (but growing) fraction of Christians who have jumped on the evangelical political extremist bandwagon - and according to you, I am trying to destroy all of Christianity ( and with Islam thrown in).
I think that Christian Dominionists (the increasing segment of fundamentalists who emphasize political control, like Pat Robertson, rather than the ones, like Billy Graham, who emphasize personal salvation) are a potentially dangerous political force, to whom we should stand up to - and according to you, I'm on a crusade, and I'm a fundie myself (some crusade: it happens to be one of dozens of facets of modern sociology & science I'm interested in, and occupies perhaps .001% of my time).
By the way, if this has become unpleasant, it is you who have made it so, by resorting to personal attacks & name calling, while not having made one point that makes any sense.