outhouse

In this case it absolutely does.


there is no comparison to what we now know, and what the primitive people your quoting knew, making up dogma based on their severe ignorance of the context.


they had no idea of the fight against polytheism, nor that polytheism was part of the foundation of their herritage.

stephan huller

So where is there any evidence for this boring white exegesis of the pentateuch? And doesnt the paucity prove that it never existed until recently? there is no reference to the messiah in the pentateuch either does that mean the concept never existed or the belief in the hereafter? That's foolish. everything essential in the religion is missing from a plain reading of the text

outhouse

So you dont understand the history of Israel???

stephan huller

And the pentateuch was intended as a factual history which failed I presume according to your self-serving atheist world view

outhouse

So you claim there is no history within its pages?


Nothing in the books reflects the changing history as we see when the redactions took place?????

stephan huller

it's not either or it's that you're saying the ancient interpretation is worthless which is principally mystical

outhouse

you almost answered your own post




The people you posted had no idea of the context of the original author.

Plain and simple.



go back and read the verse's before and after.

stephan huller

I enjoy speaking to all people - even people who have no clue what they are talking about. You know nothing more than the plain meaning of the text because you are not learned. This puts you at a disadvantage when speaking to learned people. Yet you have a desire to write off the possible meaning(s) of the text because quite frankly you don't have for things that deem to be worthless at the outset (hence your desire to write off the text as an inaccurate history).

Again it is only because you know very little that you put forward the argument that the little you know is enough to write off the possibilities in the text. Like the paraplegic who dismisses the value of walking or the blind person who argues its better not to have eyesight.

My interest is in knowing what the ancients believe because there is so much that is essential that is left out the Pentateuch narrative, things which would have been necessary for an emerging people at the beginning of the Persian period. There are oblique reference to the time of Ezra (both in terms of references to Persian language and religion and Moses's prophesy of a time of restoration) which confirms that the text is not simply a history. The text was meant as a 'prophesy' of what was happening at the time of authorship through the voice of the great figure of Moses in the past.

This negates the argument that we should approach the text MERELY as a 'history' of the Israelite people. There are historical references but the literary purpose is a mystical understanding of what is (at the beginning of the Persian period) and is to be (i.e. the restoration, the kingdom, the messiah etc).

outhouse

First if "you" dont have a clue about the people's culture who wrote said pieces and edited them, your lost with scripture alone.


Your also wrong in assuming, im basing everything on text.




False again

I have a passion for finding real history within text and dont write anything off until proven so under reasonable doubt.



You waist all this time attacking me when you yourself have not refuted a word I have said.



You completely ignore how hard it was during that time period to force Yahwism on all the people of Israel. Not everyone was a strict yahwist.

Iskander

Deuteronomy 13:3 - 4 and the Hereafter
It is wrong to ask for a commentary to those two isolated verses.

The theme to which these two verses refer begins in chapter 12 verses 28: the general principles of observance taught by Moses for the spiritual advancement.


12:28 Safeguard and hearken to all these words that I command you, in order that it be well with you and your children after you forever, when you do what is good and right in the eyes of Hashem your God.

It goes on to promise that if the Israelites live as Hashem ordains them to do they will keep the lands given to them and Hashem will cut down their enemies.

Chapter 13, there was no break from chapter 12 in the original Israelites Torah Scrolls, but what is now 13:1 was then, in the scroll, the uninterrupted continuation of chapter 12.



There is no doctrine of the Hereafter in the Torah.

There is nothing “mystical” in 13:3-4, which is to be expected of a book of the quality of the Torah.

Mysticism is for the shallow -

Friedrich Nietzsche
The Gay Science (1882)