Freethought & Rationalism Archive

MOTG · 06-27-2006, 02:12 AM

Is preventing discussion about salvation through Christ preachy? And is isolating all conversation here that shows evidence for the Word preachy?

What do you think? If not, why? I think this is an interesting phenomenon in that we find agnostics and atheists preaching such a position while simultaneously accusing Christians of preaching.

At first glance this seems to be a double standard. What do you think?

In certain places and in certain times, men would be extremely hesitant of speaking certain words for fear of being canned, thrown out, isolated, sent to the camps. Do you think this similar problem is happening here, even on the internet?

My last thread was immediately closed because I was not allowed to talk about Jesus Christ.

one allegiance · 06-27-2006, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOTG

Is preventing discussion about salvation through Christ preachy? And is isolating all conversation here that shows evidence for the Word preachy?

What do you think? If not, why? I think this is an interesting phenomenon in that we find agnostics and atheists preaching such a position while simultaneously accusing Christians of preaching.

At first glance this seems to be a double standard. What do you think?

In certain places and in certain times, men would be extremely hesitant of speaking certain words for fear of being canned, thrown out, isolated, sent to the camps. Do you think this similar problem is happening here, even on the internet?

My last thread was immediately closed because I was not allowed to talk about Jesus Christ.

I'm not sure, but are you saying it is preachy to tell people about Christ and salvation through him? That is our duty as Chritians, evangilizing. It isn't preachy, it is the one true way to God. Atheists tell us to tolerate their beliefs and not impose ours...when they are going agaisnt their philosophy all in the same breath, by not tolerating our intolerance. We are GOING to be mocked and persectued for what we believe and say...that is prophetic, but we are not supposed to be hesitant in suffering, rather rejoiceful in our sufferings. We have been hated for what we believe in...well, since Jesus...but we continue to be headstrong. And don't you think if it was all a big hoax it would be revealed by now. Especially around 100 AD when many Roman historians hated Christians, and would have done anything to tear Christianity apart. Of course it is a double standard...but it will always be like that. We are always expected to tolerate it even though they wont tolerate us.

MOTG · 06-27-2006, 02:57 AM

No I am not saying that at all. Somehow you misread what I said. I am not even sure how you misread what I said. Only you know.

fromdownunder · 06-27-2006, 02:59 AM

This is a discussion board, not a soapbox. If you wish to show evidence of God or the bible, that is fine, and if you have read some of the threads here, that is exactly what the upper fora are for. Be prepared however to back up everything you say with evidence, as some of the people here are pretty knowledgable.

But please do so on the appropriate forum, and I suggest that simply quoting the Bible, and/or trying to witness with long biblical passages or pure preaching as per your first post will get the posts either closed, or shifted to hell, or as we know it ~E~ (Elsewhere).

Hang around, read a few threads, respond where you think that your response adds something to the debate, and above all, have fun are the keys to enjoying a stay at the IIDB. Oh, and a belated welcome to the boards.

But pure preaching is definately out.

Norm

MOTG · 06-27-2006, 03:10 AM

First we must determine whether you understand the Bible's position. Do you understand that the Bible is clearly saying some people are going to hell and some are going to the new city in the new earth? This is a foundation fact of the Bible which is a cornerstone of salvation. Some people don't want to be saved, so since their soul can not be annihilated (being made in the image of God), God then must put them some place. They can't be where we are going because there is no sin where we are going. Those who can't be where we are going can't because they prefer to remain in sin.

My hope is that there is no preaching here, and a discussion along this line of reasoning that can then take us to the proof itself such as the eyewitness accounts, miracles, sinless selflessness of Christ, Jesus himself saying He is God, which no man has ever been able to match, martyrs in His name, instances of people seeing Him resurrected and so forth.

I trust that you are aware we have at least 145 different facts of Christ, 49 earliest documents, even 17 that are secular. 12 of those secular documents speak of His death. 7 even speak of His diety. Nothing in antiquity is so well recorded as you would expect from God.

MOTG · 06-27-2006, 03:14 AM

Even 18 of the documents speak of His resurrection. Quite amazing! Secular documents show a considerable amount of interest in His death and resurrection.

pharoah · 06-27-2006, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOTG

Is preventing discussion about salvation through Christ preachy? And is isolating all conversation here that shows evidence for the Word preachy?

The problem is that your last thread contained no evidence for anything. Here's how it started out:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOTG

When the Lord Jesus was crucified, He not only died in the place of sinners so as to open for them a living way to God and give them eternal life, He took sinners with Him to the cross as well. If the effect of the cross were limited to the substitutional side—that is to say, were limited to that which causes sinners not to perish but have eternal life, the salvation of God would be incomplete. For the one who has believed in Jesus Christ and been saved (see Acts 16.31) still lives in a world where temptations are many and the Devil is actively deceiving people.

You can back up these assertions here. Start with the following claims:

1) Prove that Jesus was crucified.
2) Prove that YHWH (or Yahweh) exists.
3) Prove that the Devil exists.

Good luck with this.

one allegiance · 06-27-2006, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOTG

No I am not saying that at all. Somehow you misread what I said. I am not even sure how you misread what I said. Only you know.

I understand what you were saying...I was just wandering why you were surprised to see that you were persecuted for evangilizing, that's all.

Clivedurdle · 06-27-2006, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOTG

First we must determine whether you understand the Bible's position. Do you understand that the Bible is clearly saying some people are going to hell and some are going to the new city in the new earth? This is a foundation fact of the Bible which is a cornerstone of salvation. Some people don't want to be saved, so since their soul can not be annihilated (being made in the image of God), God then must put them some place. They can't be where we are going because there is no sin where we are going. Those who can't be where we are going can't because they prefer to remain in sin.

My hope is that there is no preaching here, and a discussion along this line of reasoning that can then take us to the proof itself such as the eyewitness accounts, miracles, sinless selflessness of Christ, Jesus himself saying He is God, which no man has ever been able to match, martyrs in His name, instances of people seeing Him resurrected and so forth.

I trust that you are aware we have at least 145 different facts of Christ, 49 earliest documents, even 17 that are secular. 12 of those secular documents speak of His death. 7 even speak of His diety. Nothing in antiquity is so well recorded as you would expect from God.

Few assertions there!

What is this monolithic "Bible" that is "clearly saying"?

"I see as in a glass darkly"

Methinks your "foundation facts" are built on sand!

RussianM3_dude · 06-27-2006, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOTG

First we must determine whether you understand the Bible's position. Do you understand that the Bible is clearly saying some people are going to hell and some are going to the new city in the new earth? This is a foundation fact of the Bible which is a cornerstone of salvation. Some people don't want to be saved, so since their soul can not be annihilated (being made in the image of God), God then must put them some place. They can't be where we are going because there is no sin where we are going. Those who can't be where we are going can't because they prefer to remain in sin.

My hope is that there is no preaching here, and a discussion along this line of reasoning that can then take us to the proof itself such as the eyewitness accounts, miracles, sinless selflessness of Christ, Jesus himself saying He is God, which no man has ever been able to match, martyrs in His name, instances of people seeing Him resurrected and so forth.

I trust that you are aware we have at least 145 different facts of Christ, 49 earliest documents, even 17 that are secular. 12 of those secular documents speak of His death. 7 even speak of His diety. Nothing in antiquity is so well recorded as you would expect from God.

Nobody who could have potentially seen this jesus person ever wrote anything about him. All accounts about this alleged figure is based on hearsay evidence "my cousin' sister's boyfriend, 20 years ago heard about some preacher named jesus" - pure urban (well rural) myth.

06-27-2006, 02:12 AM	#1
MOTG Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 54	Preaching Is preventing discussion about salvation through Christ preachy? And is isolating all conversation here that shows evidence for the Word preachy? What do you think? If not, why? I think this is an interesting phenomenon in that we find agnostics and atheists preaching such a position while simultaneously accusing Christians of preaching. At first glance this seems to be a double standard. What do you think? In certain places and in certain times, men would be extremely hesitant of speaking certain words for fear of being canned, thrown out, isolated, sent to the camps. Do you think this similar problem is happening here, even on the internet? My last thread was immediately closed because I was not allowed to talk about Jesus Christ.

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06-27-2006, 02:57 AM	#3
MOTG Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 54	No I am not saying that at all. Somehow you misread what I said. I am not even sure how you misread what I said. Only you know.

06-27-2006, 02:59 AM	#4
fromdownunder Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Lara, Victoria, Australia Posts: 2,780	This is a discussion board, not a soapbox. If you wish to show evidence of God or the bible, that is fine, and if you have read some of the threads here, that is exactly what the upper fora are for. Be prepared however to back up everything you say with evidence, as some of the people here are pretty knowledgable. But please do so on the appropriate forum, and I suggest that simply quoting the Bible, and/or trying to witness with long biblical passages or pure preaching as per your first post will get the posts either closed, or shifted to hell, or as we know it ~E~ (Elsewhere). Hang around, read a few threads, respond where you think that your response adds something to the debate, and above all, have fun are the keys to enjoying a stay at the IIDB. Oh, and a belated welcome to the boards. But pure preaching is definately out. Norm

06-27-2006, 03:10 AM	#5
MOTG Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 54	First we must determine whether you understand the Bible's position. Do you understand that the Bible is clearly saying some people are going to hell and some are going to the new city in the new earth? This is a foundation fact of the Bible which is a cornerstone of salvation. Some people don't want to be saved, so since their soul can not be annihilated (being made in the image of God), God then must put them some place. They can't be where we are going because there is no sin where we are going. Those who can't be where we are going can't because they prefer to remain in sin. My hope is that there is no preaching here, and a discussion along this line of reasoning that can then take us to the proof itself such as the eyewitness accounts, miracles, sinless selflessness of Christ, Jesus himself saying He is God, which no man has ever been able to match, martyrs in His name, instances of people seeing Him resurrected and so forth. I trust that you are aware we have at least 145 different facts of Christ, 49 earliest documents, even 17 that are secular. 12 of those secular documents speak of His death. 7 even speak of His diety. Nothing in antiquity is so well recorded as you would expect from God.

06-27-2006, 03:14 AM	#6
MOTG Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 54	Even 18 of the documents speak of His resurrection. Quite amazing! Secular documents show a considerable amount of interest in His death and resurrection.

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