Sheshbazzar

The number three occurs many times throughout the TaNaKa, some places explicitly written, and in others implied.
My old trinitarian acquaintance's used to have a field day pointing out as many of these coincidences as they could find.
I don't think it the least bit odd that the NT would also continue the old practice of incorporating "holy numbers", many examples can be found, some quite cleverly concealed within counts and measures, far to often and too exact, to be a "coincidence" in any ordinary sense.

JoeWallack

JW:
Trying to reconcile the chronologies of "Mark" and "John's" Jesus' ministries is pure Apologetics. "Mark" represents the early Church and Paul which is based on Revelation and is anti-Historical. By Narrative "Mark's" Jesus' ministry is less than one year and is consistent with a Jesus who is driven by The Spirit to Jerusalem. He's on a Mission from God (like the Blues Brothers).

"John" represents the later Church (surprise) which is firmly Historical claimed based. Per the The Tale Wagging The Dogma. Which "Mark" Wrote "Mark"? A Dear John Letter the Timelion indicates that c. 135 Christianity is aware of the Synoptics but not "John" and is still claiming a combination of Revelation and History as Source. After Justin Martyr, c. 155, Christianity is aware of "John" and firmly on the claimed Historical side.

As I demonstrated in According To "John" About How Old Was Jesus When He Died? it's likely that "John's" Jesus' was close to 50 when he died with the implication that he had a long career. This is consistent with "John's" claim that the beloved disciple, Wit Hiz Phase, was a personal witness to John and a long career is needed for all the supposed miracles.

The Theologies of "Mark" and "John" are opposite. In "Mark" belief comes from Faith, not historical witness. He doesn't want a long Jesus' career because historical witness to Jesus is his problem, not his solution. In "John" belief comes from historical witness, hence the claim of lots of miracles and the need for a long career. This is supported by the apparent original champion of "John", Irenaeus of Lyons (yes, "Lyons"), who swears by Jesus that Jesus had a long career.

Will that do it for an explanation Toto.



Joseph

Lucis

There are many other numbers in the Bible that are frequently used, such as 7, 12, 40 and 72 (144). These numbers are used in myths and fairytales and if you understand their meaning you can decrypt the true meaning of the stories. For example, the number 12 always refers to the Zodiac when it is mentioned in myths, and 40 is a long undefined time ('eternity').

Sheshbazzar

A couple of my personal favorites are the dimensions of Solomon' s "brazen sea", and "Paul's" "twenty fathoms" and "fifteen fathoms", a little thought, a little geometry, and a little math, and a little vision and insight can make for an interesting exercise.

Lucis

Another interesting number at the end of NT is the 153 fish that the disciples catch with Jesus: http://www.greatdreams.com/numbers/jerry/153.htm
http://www.greatdreams.com/153.htm

"Also, in the story of Jesus' feeding the multitudes with "loaves and fishes", Christ is quoted as trying to explain to his disciples the importance of the numbers of loaves, fishes, baskets of leftovers, numbers of people fed, etc. The idea is that these stories are not about a fish eating at all but about mathematical relationships and mystical numbers that reveal, to the initiated, hidden truths about the relationship of the spiritual and material dimensions."

Cesc

Also, the "catch of 153 fish" (supposedly) has some connection with the number 3. The vesica pisces is a mathematical expression of the square root of 3 (constructed with whole numbers using circles with a radius of 153).
The same chapter makes the point that its the 3rd time Jesus shows himself to the apostles. And Peter is made to confirm his love of JC 3 times (having earlier denied him three times).

badger3k

I have read of Robert M Price's view that this was originally a Pythagorean story, but I have not read the original of this. According to him, the numbers in the tale had magical significance to the Pythagoreans.

badger3k

Well, I wasn't quite dismissing them as just relating some other number 3 associations they might have picked up elsewhere. Of course, since Judaism borrowed and adapted beliefs and traditions from their neighbors as every other religion has done, it might be hard to completely separate the "pagan" beliefs.

Thanks everyone for the replies.

badger3k

I've got to get some good translations of these texts so that I can look this up in odd times. This is what is interesting to me. I do agree that magic numbers abound in biblical texts. I wonder if this type of thing supports the idea that there were early Christian sects that were gnostic. But also, there is no requirement that using such holy numbers makes the writer a gnostic, so it's probably a weak support if any.

badger3k

Yeah - we like our numbers, don't we?

Still, I had forgotten the "3 denials", so maybe there is (as Sheshbazzar said) a Tanakh connection. I am curious as to where that came from. I was going to say that this might be cultural, but we do have the connection of 3 from India (in Hinduism - edit- IIRC they had a trinity of deities as well). I might have to check other cultures (African, Asian, American) to see if this was a "local" development or just something that humans relate to for some reason. All this to satisfy curiosity from a random thought!:constern01: