Freethought & Rationalism Archive

squiz · 10-04-2007, 09:24 AM

In 2 Kings 22 there is a story about "the book of the law" that was "found" under Josiah. I have read in many commentaries that this is commonly thought to be Deuteronomy, but I see nothing in the text itself to suggest that. Is there any direct evidence that it is Deuteronomy that is being talked about (and not for example the whole Torah)?

Clivedurdle · 10-04-2007, 09:32 AM

Is it possible Josiah wrote Deuteronomy or the Torah?

John Kesler · 10-04-2007, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squiz

In 2 Kings 22 there is a story about "the book of the law" that was "found" under Josiah. I have read in many commentaries that this is commonly thought to be Deuteronomy, but I see nothing in the text itself to suggest that. Is there any direct evidence that it is Deuteronomy that is being talked about (and not for example the whole Torah)?

This page and this page give a good summary:

Quote:

The description of the reforms of Josiah inspired by the "book of the Torah," especially the elimination of all worship centers except Jerusalem, and the reference to the document as "the book of the covenant," make its identification as Deuteronomy quite sure. Deuteronomy is so closely associated with the reforms of Josiah that most authorities today grant that at least the core of the book received its final shape out of that historical context...

Deuteronomy in some form (probably only the inner core of laws) was the "book of the Torah" that was found in 622 B.C.E. during the religious revival of Josiah. The similarities between the Deuteronomic reform (told in 2 Kings 22-23) and the prescriptions of Deuteronomy are too close to be coincidental. Both involved centralizing worship in one place, celebrating Passover in a particular way, and prohibiting certain specific pagan practices. Furthermore, the phrase "book of the Torah," found in 2 Kings 22:8, is found in other places where it can only refer to Deuteronomy (for example, Deuteronomy 30:10 and Joshua 1:8 and 8:31-35).

Clivedurdle · 10-04-2007, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Is it possible Josiah wrote Deuteronomy or the Torah?

It is very common practice. One of the Edwards found Arthur and Guinevere's grave at Glastonbury - complete with thirteenth century inscription - here lies Arthur and Guinevere!

Any reforming king would find an ancient document specifying exactly the reforms he wants very valuable!

Magdlyn · 10-04-2007, 10:31 AM

When I learnt this a few years ago, I thought, Wow, what a scam! "How conveenient!"

And yet, so many people think Moses wrote it.

I hate how the OT was redcated to give the impresssion "Judaism" was always YHWHistic, monotheistic and Jerusalem Temple-centric. Yet, that form of religion was a late late development.

Cheerful Charlie · 10-05-2007, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Is it possible Josiah wrote Deuteronomy or the Torah?

Not likely, he was barely 18 when the priests 'found' the Laws of Moses.

CC

Clivedurdle · 10-06-2007, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheerful Charlie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Is it possible Josiah wrote Deuteronomy or the Torah?

Not likely, he was barely 18 when the priests 'found' the Laws of Moses.

CC

Augustus Caesar was only 19!

Magdlyn · 10-06-2007, 08:24 AM

It's pretty obvious it was the Levites and priests. The elite, trying to scam the populace.

"Bring to 'God'* all your best. Your softest wool, best wine, meat, produce, grain. This will please God and cause him to protect us from Babylon."

*aka, us, the nobility

It didn't work, BTW. Babylon, an enormous powerful empire, easily vanquished the Judaeans, a tiny struggling ethnic group subsisting on dry rocky ground. Those same elite who tried to kill 2 birds with one stone: tax the poor and influence "God," were deported to Babylon, where they continued to rewrite their holy scriptures to make themselves look good~ ie concocting/expanding the Egyptian slavery motif as if to foreshadow their own exile, and inventing the "great" empire of David and Solomon.

10-04-2007, 09:24 AM	#1
squiz Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Munich Germany Posts: 434	The Book found by Josiah In 2 Kings 22 there is a story about "the book of the law" that was "found" under Josiah. I have read in many commentaries that this is commonly thought to be Deuteronomy, but I see nothing in the text itself to suggest that. Is there any direct evidence that it is Deuteronomy that is being talked about (and not for example the whole Torah)?

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10-04-2007, 09:32 AM	#2
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Is it possible Josiah wrote Deuteronomy or the Torah?

10-04-2007, 10:31 AM	#5
Magdlyn Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 2,230	When I learnt this a few years ago, I thought, Wow, what a scam! "How conveenient!" And yet, so many people think Moses wrote it. I hate how the OT was redcated to give the impresssion "Judaism" was always YHWHistic, monotheistic and Jerusalem Temple-centric. Yet, that form of religion was a late late development.

10-06-2007, 08:24 AM	#8
Magdlyn Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 2,230	It's pretty obvious it was the Levites and priests. The elite, trying to scam the populace. "Bring to 'God'* all your best. Your softest wool, best wine, meat, produce, grain. This will please God and cause him to protect us from Babylon." *aka, us, the nobility It didn't work, BTW. Babylon, an enormous powerful empire, easily vanquished the Judaeans, a tiny struggling ethnic group subsisting on dry rocky ground. Those same elite who tried to kill 2 birds with one stone: tax the poor and influence "God," were deported to Babylon, where they continued to rewrite their holy scriptures to make themselves look good~ ie concocting/expanding the Egyptian slavery motif as if to foreshadow their own exile, and inventing the "great" empire of David and Solomon.

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