LP675

Benevolent- “desiring to good for others�

Vengeance – “the avenging of a wrong, injury, or the like, or retributive punishment�

Retribution- “Requital according to merits or deserts, especially for evil�

I can’t see any incompatibility between the notions that God desires to do good for others, and that God punishes wrongs (takes vengeance for evil).

If by affixing the “omni� before the word benevolent one means God can ONLY do good to people, regardless of their behavior, good or evil, then I personally don’t have a problem with saying God is not “omni-benevolent� in that sense.

WCH

and how do to get to God exacting just punishment for sin from this passage, which has God killing thousands of children simply to prove a point? After all, God was the one who hardened Pharoeh's heart, and therefore God is the only one to blame for Pharoeh's resistance, not Pharoeh. Retributive action is incompatible with this. Ergo, God killed the people not out of retribution at all.

JGL53

Since it should be apparent to any sane non-brain-washed person that the bible is a work of fiction, and that the biblical god, jesus, moses, etc. are all imaginary beings, then this poll is an obvious meaningless hypothetical, like asking "If magical monkeys flew out of a person's butt, would this insure that he would be able to dunk a basketball?".

John A. Broussard

What do you call it when he punishes the innocent?

WCH

Not really... I mean, I'll use the same methods of examination with the Bible as I will with any other work of fiction.

Namely, within the context of the story, certain questions can be asked. That's why we can look at Oedipus or King Lear and determine whether the characters did good or not, without believing there was a real Oedipus or Fool.

WWFStern

The whole idea of this mass butchery being excused because of Pharaoh's stubborn refusal to bend to God's whims is nonsensical. God didn't punish the Pharoah. God punished a whole mass of innocent children, who had no influence over the Pharaoh's policies. How, may I ask, did the poor slave girl's firstborn child exert influence over the Pharaoh? Did the poor slave girl's child dictate that the Israelites remain slaves? Of course not. The Pharaoh did. Therefore, in the context of this story, only the Pharaoh and his minions deserve punishment. Therefore, the situation does not, in any way, justify the mass butchery carried out by God. In my view, the passage reveals the masturbatory nature of the Christian God, who demands to be loved and adored, and can be a vindictive prick if anybody dares to defy him.

An all-powerful being has limitless options to deal with any situation. The bottom line is, God chose, of limitless options, to slaughter thousands of innocent children to prove a point. Might as well call the deity Ted Bundy or Gary Ridgway.

LP675

I am not sure that God punishes the innocent. And it depends what you mean by punishment.

If one accepts Christian theology there are very few “innocent� persons. The Christian position on innocence is summed up pretty well in Romans 1:18-32 – 3:20 i.e. generally speaking there are no innocent persons.

If someone is innocent, and for example is caught up in an act of retribution on a wicked society (e.g. babies) then Christian theology would say they go to heaven, a place much preferable to earth. I.e. they won’t be complaining once they are there.

John A. Broussard

It still makes me uneasy to think that an all-powerful god can't prevent an innocent child from suffering--even for a second, nevermind for hours, days and years.

WWFStern

Let us not forget the passage I quoted to start this thread. Many words are expended to emphasize the degree to which God will cause suffering...that whole bit about wailing like there never has been before, and never will be again. This isn't just "killing" thousands of innocent children; this is "slaughtering," "butchering," and "skewering" thousands of children, with the clear indication that the suffering will be incredible. This, of limitless potential options, is the course a supposedly omnibenevolent God chose to take. This God deserves utter disdain.

RomanNiucumir

Maybe suffering and death is good if it is non-innocents that are suffering and dying? Maybe shootings, genocides, murders, tsunamis, and buildings collapsing are merciful acts of God (after all, there could always be more people dead)? Maybe the Holocaust and the Chernobyl accident were just punishments against a sinful world? :banghead: :huh: