Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Topher · 11-28-2008, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GakuseiDon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Robert M. Price is a scholar - an evangelical turned atheist-who-still-loves-church-ritual. He is close to being a mythicist.

Richard Carrier is a scholar - a Taoist turned atheist. He is a mythicist.

If you need an authority to believe in one theory or the other, you can take your pick.

How can you pick either of them? As far as I know, neither Price nor Carrier have ever proposed their own hypothesis for the non-historicity of Jesus, nor approved any one particular mythicist position. If this has changed, I'd be interested to hear it. They haven't published a case on-line or off-line that can be examined or questioned. All we can say is that they are mythicists. Can we ask mythicists to encourage them to make a case, so the matter can be discussed?

I think Carrier's views are roughly in line with Doherty, although there is a lot he disagree with him about. Read Carrier's review of the Doherty's book, he elaborates on his views there, or listen to the interview I posted. I'm sure his view has developed considerably since then however. Carrier is also writing a book on the issue where I presume he will outline his case.

Doug Shaver · 11-30-2008, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joan of Bark

So who do I believe ... him or the MJers?

My method of deciding is to examine the arguments and see which seems more cogent to me. I don't worry too much about the credentials on either side.

Ted Hoffman · 11-30-2008, 09:38 PM

I wonder how James Tabor will fit in. I believe he is a conservative on the far right with downright nutty ideas. Remember Vork shred his book (The Jesus Dynasty) before he closed his blog.

Toto · 11-30-2008, 10:13 PM

I don't think that Tabor is a conventional conservative, if he is conservative. His ideas about the Jesus Dynasty didn't go over well with the religious right.

His blog still seems to be here: http://www.jesusdynasty.com/blog/

Are you thinking about someone else?

Ted Hoffman · 11-30-2008, 10:47 PM

Quote:

His ideas about the Jesus Dynasty didn't go over well with the religious right.

I think its a problem with the meaning of "conservative." Yes his ideas weren't accepted but I believe NT Wright has also attracted plenty of criticism but he still belongs to the same camp. Lets see...
I think I used "conservative" to mean someone who believes that the gospels were narrating what happened (history). His interpretations were what were rejected.

Ben C Smith · 12-01-2008, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Hoffman

I think its a problem with the meaning of "conservative."

In my book, scholars like Tabor reveal the utter inadequacy of the labels liberal and conservative. Those terms are, I think, worthless except as ways to dismiss arguments without engaging them.

I recall reading a review of Wright that critiqued his breakdown of HJ scholarship into three waves. On the surface, this breakdown seems to work fine. But the reviewer noted that some very important scholars do not seem to find a place in the framework, notably Jeremias and Dodd.

All such labels or frameworks are purely heuristic.

Ben.

Ted Hoffman · 12-02-2008, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben C Smith

Those terms are, I think, worthless except as ways to dismiss arguments without engaging them.

What about when the arguments have been engaged? Do they still serve the same purpose?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben C Smith

All such labels or frameworks are purely heuristic.

Or they could be classificatory.

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11-30-2008, 09:38 PM	#63
Ted Hoffman Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: "" Posts: 3,863	I wonder how James Tabor will fit in. I believe he is a conservative on the far right with downright nutty ideas. Remember Vork shred his book (The Jesus Dynasty) before he closed his blog.

11-30-2008, 10:13 PM	#64
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	I don't think that Tabor is a conventional conservative, if he is conservative. His ideas about the Jesus Dynasty didn't go over well with the religious right. His blog still seems to be here: http://www.jesusdynasty.com/blog/ Are you thinking about someone else?

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