Toto

This is a good place to start. Please document each of these assertions:

• Matthew, John, and Peter were eyewitnesses (original apostles) and recorded this event.
  
• Jude was the brother of Christ and recorded his findings.
  
• Others did the same such as Luke and Paul.
  
• Paul said he saw Jesus resurrected;
  
• Luke is as close as you can get to being a first hand account.
  
• Mark is also believed to be an eyewitness as there is a specific verse indicated he was at the event of one of Christ's talks.
  
• And Roman sources and Jewish sources also record this event of his death.
  
• Many are recording this event who lived at that time, . . . they even were killed for saying they say Jesus resurrected; they were with him for three and a half years of His ministry too. ....
  
• This same truth teaches us that the Devil exists, that the reason why man sinned was because he was tempted, not by God (for that would be unrighteous and unholy), but was a predecessor to Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve were the first God-conscious people.
  
• God through the Bible describes what happened to Satan millions or billions of years ago and why he fell out of 3rd heaven as a most beautiful angel now eternally separated from God, and why God had to make the earth desolate and waste in Gen. 1.2 because of his sin and bringing 1/3 of the fallen angels with him after he corrupted the beings that then turned into demons, now disembodied spirits. One of those spirits went into the serpent to tempt Eve.
  
• And the Bible says that evil spirit is in your spirit right now though you are a dullard unable to realize it.

funinspace

Like others have said, this is not a sermon board. If you think this place is so close minded and controlling of ideas, why don't you point out a Christian site that welcomes open debate with atheists or Muslims?

Yep, that's what I remember reading.
Hum, your god's power is limited? Even though he made us from dust/dirt; we can't be turned back into dust? How odd.

You've got quite a bunch of things going here. May I also suggest we talk of your "17". You mean he died, and that is evidence? Contemporary extra-biblical evidence is always prefered, but is there any? The mere mention of Christians, is hardly note worthy. It's pretty obvious that Christians exist and existed. Also, hostile evidence is also of little positive value to an apologetic. So what do you have to offer? Could your 17 be these?
1. Clement of Rome -- 70 years after his death, not really contemporary
2. Eusebius -- existed 300 years after the life of Jesus, absolutely not relevent.
3. Flavius Josephus -- The major reference is an obvious forgery, and accepted my the majority of Christian Scholars. Simply put, why would a Jew call Jesus the Christ? In a Slavonic translation, it suggests the emphasis was a political aim of the Jewish-Christian resurectionists in Judea.
4. Ignatius - Ignatius of Antioch (c.110), writing 80 years after Jesus death, not really contemporary.
5. Irenaeus - 130-202 AD; not contemporary.
6. Jewish Talmud; not exactly friendly evidence; liturgy from 85 'May the Nazarenes and the heretics be suddenly destroyed and removed from the book of life'
7. Julius Africanus who cites both Thallus and Phlegon - From what I could find, there are no surviving writings of Julius. There are only references to him starting in the 2nd century.
8. Justin Martyr -- 90 + years later, not contemporary.
9. Letter of Mara Bar-Serapion - Wrote a letter ~73 AD. The letter mentioned a "wise king" but never mentioned Jesus by name.
10. Lucian of Samosata - Born 120 AD died sometime after 180 AD, not contemporary.
11. Papias - ~110-150 AD, not really contemporary.
12. Pliny the Younger - ~62-113 AD; verifies Christians existed.
13. Polycarp - lived 70-155 AD, not really contemporary.
14. Suetonius - 69-140 AD; 'they were constantly rioting at the instigation of Chrestus'
15. Tacitus -- 80 years later; in Rome Tacitiaus, speaking of the Fires from the 60's in Annals called the Way "the detestable superstition of Christianity".
16. Tatian -- 120+ years later, not contemporary.
17.Tertullian. -- 170 years later, not contemporary.

MOTG

We know the Koran is false because despite these proofs, it says something contrary to what Jesus, the prophets and the saints said. Remember the Koran comes along six and a half centuries later. It really has no authority to change what is so well documented and already in harmony over the 4000 years from Adam to Christ. It's like someone coming in to rewrite a script at chapter 6.

MOTG

I think most Christians would see atheists and agnostics as both preachy and evangelizing their doctrine of overassuming they happened all by themselves. This sounds utterly selfish of course.

MOTG

To start Matthew's testimony is in the book of Matthew, Peter's testimony is in the books 1 and 2 Peter. John's testimony is in the the book of John, books 1,2 and 3 John and the book of Revelation.

Any questions?

Didymus

The idea is right, but you've got the wrong animal. Asses bray. Sheep follow the leader without question. Both seem pertinent to this thread.

Didymus

MOTG

I would to let you know the source from which I am working for all this documentation:

- Ancient Evidence for the Life of Jesus
- The Historical Jesus

Here we find 129 facts of Christ, 45 ancient sources: 17 of which are non-Christian, and 5 are Christian non-NT sources. 30 of them record His teaching [deity of Jesus] which suprising 17 are secular sources. These 30 sources say Jesus said He is the Son of God and the Son of Man which in Jewish understanding is the same as saying you are God as the coming Messiah.

The most common item mentioned of those 129 facts is His death on the cross. Of the 45 sources, 28 of them mention His death and 12 of those sources are non-Christian. His death on the cross is a major focal point of interest for these non-Christian sources. It's as if they know of the prophecy that it is to happen to redeem those who would receive His salvation.

Of the 45 sources, 18 also mention His resurrection. Wow!

Jesus fulfilled 62 prophecies which scientists place the odds of less than 1 in a trillion. He was seen by over 500 people in His resurrection and by 11 different group settings. The apostles believed and died in His name.

Even the brothers of Jesus - James and Jude - who first did not believe He was God then ended up believing He was God in the flesh. Amazing eh?

Nero killed many Christians as a result. That's why in Aramaic Neron Kaiser = 666, the number of a man (Rev. 13.18) and shall be revived as the coming Antichrist and he is the ultimate bad human being. It's due to jealousy.

Also, remember the Stephen was martyred right quick after the death of Jesus and so was James (brother of John) for their testimony of Jesus being God.

Sven

We know the bible is false because despite these proofs, it says something contrary to what Vishnu and the other Hindu gods said. Remember the bible comes along about 1000 years later. It really has no authority to change what is so well documented and already in harmony [...]. It's like someone coming in to rewrite a script at chapter 6.

Your point?

I snipped "the 4000 years from Adam to Christ" - because, well, that's not "well documented", but soundly refuted since about 200 years ago.

Kosh

Looks like a no show, folks.

MOTG

Christians follow Christ because He proved Himself. Atheists and agnostics follow their god of self and the blind faith of thinking they happened all by themselves without evidence for this claim. That's like sheep being led to the slaughter.