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Old 02-03-2006, 06:55 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic
What is false? Are you saying that you "can" take a vote to decide what God wants you to do?
No, I'm saying there was no such vote.
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Old 02-03-2006, 07:30 PM   #22
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Default The New Testament Canon revisited

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic
What is false? Are you saying that you "can" take a vote to decide what God wants you to do?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatsoff
No, I'm saying there was no such vote.
There is good reason to believe that various votes were taken. As I showed in one of my previous posts:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JS
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03274a.htm

From the Catholic Encyclopedia

THE FORMATION OF THE NEW TESTAMENT CANON (A.D. 100-220)

The idea of a complete and clear-cut canon of the New Testament existing from the beginning, that is from Apostolic times, has no foundation in history. The Canon of the New Testament, like that of the Old, is the result of a development, of a process at once stimulated by disputes with doubters, both within and without the Church, and retarded by certain obscurities and natural hesitations, and which did not reach its final term until the dogmatic definition of the Tridentine Council.
In other words, the “doubters� were outvoted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by by JS
Microsoft Encarta Encyclopedia:

The beginning of canon law may be seen in the New Testament (see Acts
15; 1 Corinthians 11). During the 2nd and 3rd centuries a number of church orders (for example, the Didache and the Apostolic Tradition) described as normative certain customary practices of the community. Canon law in the sense of enacted legislation originated in the 4th-century regional councils held in Asia Minor. The enactments of these councils (Ancyra, Neocaesarea, Antioch, Gangra, and Laodicea), together with those of the ecumenical councils of Nicaea (325), Constantinople (present-day Ä°stanbul) (381), and Chalcedon (451), formed the nucleus of subsequent collections. They dealt with the structure of the church (the provincial and patriarchal organization), the dignity of the clergy, the process of reconciling sinners, and Christian life in general.
So, we have 1) the normative certain customary practices of the community, 2) the council of Ancyra, 3) the council of Neocaesarea, 4) the council of Antioch, 5) the council of Gangra, 6) the council of Laodicea, 7) the council of Nicaea (325), 8) the council of Constantinople (present-day Ä°stanbul) (381), and 9) the council of Chalcedon (451). Surely there must have been some disagreements regarding the customary practices of the community, and at the councils as well.

Votes or no votes, do you believe that there is good evidence that God chose the books that were included in the New Testament canon?
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Old 02-03-2006, 07:39 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic
Votes or no votes, do you believe that there is good evidence that God chose the books that were included in the New Testament canon?
You have a funny idea of God. May I ask if that is the kind of God you believed in for 35 years?
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Old 02-03-2006, 07:43 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic
There is good reason to believe that various votes were taken. As I showed in one of my previous posts:
...
In other words, the “doubters� were outvoted.
The Council of Trent began in late 1545, by which time the NT canon was firmly established. It also comes after the Reformation, meaning it did not apply to all Christians. There may have been ballots throughout history regarding the NT canon, but none of them affected its development.
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Old 02-03-2006, 08:02 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatsoff
The Council of Trent began in late 1545, by which time the NT canon was firmly established. It also comes after the Reformation, meaning it did not apply to all Christians. There may have been ballots throughout history regarding the NT canon, but none of them affected its development.
In my previous post, I said "Votes of no votes, do you believe that there is good evidence that God chose the books that were included in the New Testament canon?" Please answer my question.
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Old 02-03-2006, 08:53 PM   #26
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Roger Pearse has posted relevant data about the Council of Nicaea.

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/nicaea.html

regards,
Peter Kirby
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Old 02-03-2006, 09:25 PM   #27
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Default The New Testament Canon revisited

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Kirby
Roger Pearse has posted relevant data about the Council of Nicaea.

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/nicaea.html
Does Roger claim that God chose the writings that were included in the New Testament canon? If so, then why were so many councils necessary, and why were there so many disagreements before "orthodox" Christians finally got their way? As Elaine Pagels aptly said, "the victors [orthodox Christians] rewrote history, 'their way.'"
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Old 02-03-2006, 09:30 PM   #28
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Default thread history - NT canon arrived at by a vote ?

First Claim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic
The New Testament canon was arrived at by a vote. That fact discredits the canon because you can't take a vote in order to decide what God wants you to do. Such a vote would appeal to the fallacy of "argumentum ad populum."
Fallback position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic
It is reasonable to assume that votes were taken by the councils.... There is good reason to believe that various votes were taken....In other words, the “doubters� were outvoted.
Final Answer ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic
Votes or no votes
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Old 02-03-2006, 09:39 PM   #29
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Default The New Testament Canon revisited

Message to praxeus: Is it your position that God chose the writings that were included in the New Testament canon? If so, who specifically did he tell about it, and when, and where?
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Old 02-03-2006, 09:50 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

The Microsoft Encarta Encyclopedia 2004 says that "Paul, circa ad 3-62," was "the greatest missionary of Christianity and its first theologian, called Apostle to the Gentiles," and yet, none of the Gospel's mention Paul, even though he died before Mark, the earliest Gospel, was written?
Why the surprise that the gospels do not mention Paul?
They are about Christ not Paul. Paul did not have his Damascus Road encounter till at least 2 years after the time frame of the gospels.
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