Freethought & Rationalism Archive

No Robots · 11-04-2009, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solo

People tend to forget that the idiocies of Aryan race and the swastika did not start with Chamberlain or Gobineau or Hitler. The three were just imbibing, each according their ability, and each on a different stage of the spread of the disease, the science of theosophy of Mme Blavatsky.

Nice. Information on the connection of theosophy and the Nazis available here.

maryhelena · 11-04-2009, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solo

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryhelena

And as for the Robert Price and Acharya S/D Murdock modern interest in numerology and astrothelogy - perhaps its time that this element within the New Testament is finally brought to the light of day and seen for what it is: A continuation of a centuries old fascination with numbers and astronomy. Christians, if they want to continue with their idea that they stand in some special place in all of this - i.e. that their religion is somehow above it all - are surely being shortsighted.

It's not a question of whether Christians stand "above" numerology and astrotheology. It's more about fascination with nonsense and the uncanny faculty of nonsense to displace knowledge and common sense. People tend to forget that the idiocies of Aryan race and the swastika did not start with Chamberlain or Gobineau or Hitler. The three were just imbibing, each according their ability, and each on a different stage of the spread of the disease, the science of theosophy of Mme Blavatsky.

Jiri

How we have got on to Hitler beats me....
Whether one views numerology and astrotheology as nonsense is besides the point. The history of religions does indicate that it has been very much a part of how people have sought to understand their situation. That some people might have used numerology and astrotheology for questionable purposes - that is something else - and says nothing whatsoever about whether numerology or astrotheology has been of value to other people.

Its not the tool that is at fault when it is used for causing harm.

Solo · 11-04-2009, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solo

People tend to forget that the idiocies of Aryan race and the swastika did not start with Chamberlain or Gobineau or Hitler. The three were just imbibing, each according their ability, and each on a different stage of the spread of the disease, the science of theosophy of Mme Blavatsky.

Nice. Information on the connection of theosophy and the Nazis available here.

Nice.

That would be the view of a naive theosophist.

Here is another view of the connection.

Jiri

Toto · 11-04-2009, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryhelena

...
How we have got on to Hitler beats me...

It's called Godwin's Law.

Robert Price is not a follower of Blavatsky. He calls her "such a crude hoaxer and confidence trickster that she actually had confederates drop folded paper notes through the air vents during séances and claimed they were messages from the Ascended Masters" (see the review of Harpur mentioned above.)

Hitler is off topic in this forum, whether the discussion concerns his more signficant Christian background, or the occult. Any more discussion will be split off and moved to a more appropriate forum.

Dave31 · 11-04-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Solo "I thought he had Acharya S down pat in 2000. She is a diligent bee to be sure but an intellectual lightweight, no matter what Price may say now."

Solo, explain your obsessive knee-jerk hatred for Acharya S. Is it fair to say that she's never done anything to you to warrant such hatred? Except, of course, not agree with your Christian fundamentalism.

Sorry, but a person who can read a dozen languages and do the intricate research she does is hardly an "intellectual lightweight." I'd say your inability to grasp the concepts she raises proves you to be talking about yourself.

Quote:

Solo "Look at the last paragraph in page four of Christ in Egypt google books excerpt. Read and marvel : The call for primary sources serves to remind us that Christians went on a censorship rampage and destroyed as much evidence as they could in the name of "piety", ravaging Pagan temples, murdering their priests and torturing and slaughtering non-believers nonbelievers and believers by the millions. There is an odious je-ne-sais-quoi, a collapse of intellectuality in such a blanket, unqualified accusation, and it is brought about by what ? Well, certainly not by the need to be more discerning, objective and spook-free."

So you've never heard of the crusades or Inquisitions? How convenient. Christians documented for us what they destroyed because they were so proud of their murderous, destruction rampage - it's a time period now popularly known as THE DARK AGES. Maybe you've heard of it?

There's a new film coming out based on a true story about Hypatia titled, "Agora." The death of the beautiful Hypatia marked the end of the Greek Philosophy and Science. After her murder Europe entered the Dark Ages.

Pagan Destruction Chronology (314-870 C.E)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLzbxJ0RNFY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSTkM...eature=channel

Quote:

"415 In Alexandria, Egypt, the mob urged by the bishop Cyrillus, attacks a few days before the judaeo-christian Pascha (Pesach-Easter) and hacks to pieces the famous and beautiful philosopher Hypatia. Pieces of her body are paraded by the christian mob through the streets of Alexandria, and are finally burned together with her books in a place called Cynaron. On 30th August, new persecutions start against all the Pagan priests of North Africa, who end their lives either crucified or burned alive."

http://www.freethoughtnation.com/for...hp?f=15&t=2185

I suppose we should just forget all about all that horror, because you claim to have a superior intellect. "spook-free" - when you have driven the spooks out of your own brain - i.e., the Father, Son and Holy Ghost - you may have some credibility. Until then, forget it. All you are dong here is engaging in witless ad hom personal attacks and spewing hatred.

So now you have more work to do - you can go attack the film makers. I'm sure you'll find a way to pull out your Hitler card there too.

Solo, I'd recommend actually reading Christ in Egypt rather than smearing and libeling an author and book you know next to nothing about out of knee-jerk reaction due to Dr. Prices' outstanding review. You appear to be attacking anyone & everyone who acknowledges that Acharya S/Murdock may be right.

andrewcriddle · 11-04-2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave31

Quote:

"415 In Alexandria, Egypt, the mob urged by the bishop Cyrillus, attacks a few days before the judaeo-christian Pascha (Pesach-Easter) and hacks to pieces the famous and beautiful philosopher Hypatia. Pieces of her body are paraded by the christian mob through the streets of Alexandria, and are finally burned together with her books in a place called Cynaron. On 30th August, new persecutions start against all the Pagan priests of North Africa, who end their lives either crucified or burned alive."

http://www.freethoughtnation.com/for...hp?f=15&t=2185

Quote:

On 30th August, new persecutions start against all the Pagan priests of North Africa, who end their lives either crucified or burned alive.

What is the basis for this claim please ?
The nearest parallel I could find is

Quote:

415 Aug 30 Pagan priests North Africa must abandon metropolitan cities and return to their ancestral cities before the kalends of November, otherwise they will be punished...

imperial-laws-chart-395-431

Andrew Criddle

Solo · 11-04-2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave31

Quote:

"415 In Alexandria, Egypt, the mob urged by the bishop Cyrillus, attacks a few days before the judaeo-christian Pascha (Pesach-Easter) and hacks to pieces the famous and beautiful philosopher Hypatia. Pieces of her body are paraded by the christian mob through the streets of Alexandria, and are finally burned together with her books in a place called Cynaron. On 30th August, new persecutions start against all the Pagan priests of North Africa, who end their lives either crucified or burned alive."

http://www.freethoughtnation.com/for...hp?f=15&t=2185

I suppose we should just forget all about all that horror, because you claim to have a superior intellect. "spook-free" - when you have driven the spooks out of your own brain - i.e., the Father, Son and Holy Ghost - you may have some credibility. Until then, forget it. All you are dong here is engaging in witless ad hom personal attacks and spewing hatred.

I haven't read Maria Dzielska's book but the intro looks like an interesting handling of Hypatia of Alexandria in history and legend = > try the excerpts here.

Jiri

gurugeorge · 11-05-2009, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Sumner

The simplest explanation for the seven churches is that it was really written with seven churches in mind.

Solo · 11-05-2009, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gurugeorge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Sumner

The simplest explanation for the seven churches is that it was really written with seven churches in mind.

I am ready to take the leap of faith. John in 1:4 is really John of Patmos, and he is really addressing the churches named in 1:11, with what he believes are the emanations of the Spirit.

Jiri

Solo · 11-05-2009, 09:59 AM

Ever since I read the OP I knew I had seen Price in another review argue against the wholesale generalizations he is now making in support of D.M.Murdock. Finally found it, thanks to jakejones pointing to it in a Jesus Mysteries thread:

In 2009, Price delivers a rather silly-looking verdict on the interplay of internal religious development vis-a-vis syncretic "borrowing":

Quote:

Acharya S. ventures that “the creators of the Christ myth did not simply take an already formed story, scratch out the name Osiris or Horus, and replace it with Jesus” (p. 25). But I am pretty much ready to go the whole way and suggest that Jesus is simply Osiris going under a new name, Jesus,” Savior,” hitherto an epithet, but made into a name on Jewish soil.

But in a review of Jonathan Z. Smith's Drudgery Divine years ago, Price took a remarkably smart common sense approach, in arguing for the admission of syncretic mythology as one of the building blocks of the NT.

Quote:

It is wise to seek to explain any religion, whether ancient Christianity or Mithraism or the Attis religion, on its own terms and not simply as a function of another religion it may have borrowed from, but neither is it unreasonable in the case of significant similarities to suggest borrowing. Is it problematic to suggest, for instance, that Mithraism borrowed the representation of Mithras wearing the Phrygian cap or accompanied by a divine consort from the Attis cult, or that the Attis cult borrowed the Taurobolium from Mithraism? Certainly not. And then why should one avoid the possible conclusion that Christianity borrowed from its competitors as well? One fears Smith, having rejected the polemics of an earlier generation, fears too much being found guilty of being "ecumenically incorrect."

The review can be seen here in its entirety.

Jiri

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