Sheshbazzar

What "errors" rhutchin? My "devout" maternal uncles were hell bent on teaching a three year old those very things that the Bible teaches.
Why, slyly imply that what I have concluded and expounded above is in error, while dodging what it is that those above verses actually say?
Go ahead, deal with these verses and with exactly what they do say, and explain how they really mean something different than what I have presented.

You are right, in that these verses are at odds and disagrees with other Biblical texts, the reason for that, is the fact that they are at odds with other texts.
This is what happens when the writers fashion the chief character's personality out of a hodge-podge of old "sayings" and writings indiscriminently tossed together.
You end up with your imaginary preacher suffering from severe mental problems and personality disorders, in other words an insane preacher of a confused and insane religion.
This is why the various sects of Christianity must continue to insanely oppose themselves, one group following the logic of one teaching, and another a different logic, and the third yet another logic. "Jesus" has always had a "multiple personality disorder" simply because his words and sayings were all "borrowed" and extracted from multiple personalities, many with entirely opposing views.
Thus it is that "the body of Christ" that is to say, the Christian church, has often acted insanely, despising, attacking, abusing, and injuring the members of its own body, and of others, just as an utterly insane man will despise and tear and rip at his own flesh, and be a constant danger to those around him, so is the church of christ.
There is no cure for that form of insanity, other than steer clear of the one so affected, and see to the restraining that insane one for the safety of all men.

Deus Ex

Which leads to thousands of heresies (according to Catholics). Just look how often the Protestants keep fracturing into more and more denominations due to differing interpretations of scripture.

Deus Ex

If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities -Voltaire

rhutchin

That's true. However, you can identify those presuppositional beliefs and where they come into play and then determine whether those beliefs are themselves based on that which the Bible says. Eventually, a wrong theology will have to contradict explicitly that which the Bible says.

Nonetheless, you are not bound by the presuppositional beliefs of others and only have to be concerned with your own.

rhutchin

I see a lot of cherry-picking of verses on your part and not much examination of, or allowance for, context which would determine whether the rule/law being considered was universal or conditional.

rhutchin

As appears to have happened to you from what you write.

bacht

True enough, but people can still believe absurd things about themselves without any religious instruction

"All is vanity" - Koheleth

storytime

"I prefer to let the bible speak on it's terms".

I hear this a lot from the non-Jewish side in Christians who refuse to read and understand this NT story as Jew against Jews. Specifically, Jesus the Jew against Pharisee Jews. The terms was of JEWISH men in their controversial arguments and commentary. The terms of Jesus was my way or the highway and he to be recognized as the only Lord of his disciples. Certainly Jesus didn't expect the Pharisees to be Lords of his disciples. John the Baptist was Lord of his disciples. After Johns death, some of his disciples went to the Jesus side and followed him. Jesus demanding that his disciples must hate their own families in loyalty to him would have been an acceptable form of behavior in that time and place, I think. Before Jesus came along there was a priest who hated certain Jews so badly that he plucked out the hair of Jewish Levites heads (maybe they were supposed to be bald?) and ordered them to dump their wives and children and follow him. So why can't the character Jesus the Jew be seen as doing the same as the priest[Ezra?] who taught before him? The substance of the story is Jewish and how Jews believed what and what for and with the different sects within Judaism forming but each holding to what they perceived to be the standard of law; which standard both Peter[Satan] and Paul[the false prophet] tried to destroy.

So, imo, if anyone wants to stick to the terms of the bible, they should look at Judaism in its laws and covenant of circumcision established for the sons of Jacob alone. Gentiles were always excluded in this Jewish protocol because Israel was never a Gentile nation. Jesus was not a Christian, he was not a Gentile uncircumcised and without laws. He was devoted to his Judaism, so much so that he told his disciples that they would be brought before governors and kings to make testimony against them and the Gentiles. In another section of the story Jesus tells his disciples that they only were intended to receive the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, for it was to them that the kingdom of heaven was given and not to the multitudes. In another section of the story Jesus makes it known that he was not sent to any but the lost sheep in the house of Israel.

One is forced to decide whom to follow; Jesus the Jew or Peter who was Satan and his false prophet Paul. If following Jesus one would be required to hate his own family, take up his cross and follow Jesus the Jew. Or take a walk on the wild side of insanity and unreason with Peter and Paul in their no law, no circumcision, universal gospel where everyone gets saved or maybe not according to who is the decider of principles, and hell is a misapplied agenda, or whatever else might be imagined.

bacht

"Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
not like the covenant which I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant which they broke, though I was their husband, says the LORD.
But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
And no longer shall each man teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, `Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

Jeremiah 31:31-34


Maybe after the fall of the temple there were Jews who re-examined passages like this. The rabbis understood that the Torah could no longer be followed completely in ritual, and there was no longer a Jewish state for Jews to demonstrate righteousness as a political group. All they had left were the scriptures and the synagogues while living as strangers in strange lands.

Christ may have been an anti-messiah invented by post-revolt Jews who wanted to put the recent horrors behind them. Once the gentiles got hold of him the game changed.

ElectEngr

:Cheeky::Cheeky::Cheeky:

How's this one...You Don't Mess With the Zohan

:Cheeky::Cheeky::Cheeky:

Later,

ElectEngr