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Old 01-19-2008, 10:33 AM   #11
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You need to compare the bible with what others thought at a similar time to get a standard to judge from. Otherwise the judgment has no value
Euclid? Archimedes?
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Old 01-19-2008, 11:07 AM   #12
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Yes, but God is 'people rancher' long before he is a 'forest ranger' and wrote the mythology down so his message would be like the kernel of sand placed in an oyster shell that the reader must first cultivate as outsider to later encounter and even wear as insider.
He's a rancher AND a printer? I really need a new intake manifold gasket...Maybe he's a mechanic too.

He is all of that and then some. In fact, he provides the major premiss of every inquiry that we may have, and if your conclusion here is that you need an intake gasket he will have also been the inspiration for the maker of that gasket.

What I like best here is that the Gutenberg press accelerated the rise of our
modal logic as if putting yeast in dough to make it rise a little faster and consequently must be punched down sooner so we can all have a taste of it (if only in the wake of its aftermath as we see here now at our favorite venting place).
Here is what Parmenides had to say on this:

"For just as each man is fitted with much roaming limbs,
So is the insight which comes to man. Indeed,
this IT is that thinks, this nature (emergent) through the limbs of man,
Both in all and in each, for what fills the limbs is what gets thought."

Or Empedocles reported:

"For all according to what is present does mindfulness grow in men (and)
As they change into another nature so too . . .
does thinking come to them in other ways."
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Old 01-19-2008, 11:21 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by spin View Post
You need to compare the bible with what others thought at a similar time to get a standard to judge from. Otherwise the judgment has no value
Euclid? Archimedes?
Be reasonable.

Try people who are representative of their era. Read about the Syrian Goddess or Plutarch's world views. Read about the mystery cults. Dionysius. Mithras. Look at the auguries Suetonius mentions. Read about the popularity of Alexander who advocated worshiping a snake god, recorded by Lucian of Samosata. Look at the works of the gnostics. Make a fair comparison.


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Old 01-19-2008, 01:03 PM   #14
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A question for believers ...
or four...

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What is the point of the Bible?
It's a record of God's interaction with the people in it.

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If you can simply pray to God and get all the answers directly from the source, then why do you need a book?
Inspiration, for one.


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By using the Bible, you have all the problems of translation and interpretation to deal with.
Like a jigsaw puzzle. Some people spend hours putting them together, go figure.

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In prayer, the answer will be clear and perfect.
Not always clear, but that's part of the learning process, and in many cases the curve.

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The only passage that seems to be necessary in the Bible is this one:

"If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."
(Matt. 21:22 NIV)
How so? People are told that as it is, but don't know.

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Couldn't God figure out how to get you this one statement without destroying several forests in the process?
The only forest known to be destroyed because of any book was the Sahara Forest.

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I thought God cared about the environment?
Al Gore ain't God.
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Old 01-19-2008, 01:51 PM   #15
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God runs a printing company?
In Exodus, there is a report God could print on stone, when in the company of Moses.

Exodus 31.18, " And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God."
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Old 01-19-2008, 01:58 PM   #16
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In Exodus, there is a report God could print on stone, when in the company of Moses.

Exodus 31.18, " And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God."
Oh come on! That's so obviously engraving and NOT printing.
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Old 01-19-2008, 06:34 PM   #17
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The most superfluous book ever?

Sadly I'm not a believer, but certainly the bible is not the most superfluous books ever. The bible's ill-repute comes from the millennia of abuse the book has suffered. For what it is, the bible is an anthology which gives some perspective on two ancient cultures. It contains a lot of historical interest. It shows us how people coped with the world before science, how they reacted to the world, how they regulated themselves in their society. Would you write off the Rigveda or the Kalevala? The worst problem about the bible is its usual advocates. This is a case of shoot the messengers not the message. They usually don't know much of the message at all.


I'm asking the question of believers, Spin. Obviously we skeptics see it as a historical / cultural / mythological anthology. Believers see it as the word of God. From that perspective, it seems to be superfluous.
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Old 01-19-2008, 06:39 PM   #18
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Couldn't God figure out how to get you this one statement without destroying several forests in the process? I thought God cared about the environment?
God runs a printing company?
No, but if God cared about the environment, he would not have wanted His Word to destroy so many trees. In His omnipotence, he would have made sure that we all knew the way to get answers about anything is through prayer.
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Old 01-19-2008, 06:56 PM   #19
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[QUOTE=Exciter;5100960]


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It's a record of God's interaction with the people in it.
He could have fed this information directly to our brains.

Quote:
Inspiration, for one.
So those who believe that an all-loving God created the universe, and all the marvels in it, need a book for inspiration?

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Like a jigsaw puzzle. Some people spend hours putting them together, go figure.
And the illiterate are out of luck.

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Not always clear, but that's part of the learning process, and in many cases the curve.
A learning process that has resulted in countless conflicts because no two groups of believers can agree on what it says. Does God like conflict?

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How so? People are told that as it is, but don't know
.

If they prayed, they would find out. And again, God could have fed this information directly into our minds.

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The only forest known to be destroyed because of any book was the Sahara Forest.
Okay, so I used some hyperbole. Thousands of trees have been cut down and huge quantities of energy has been consumed to spread the Word of the Omnipotent God.

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Al Gore ain't God.
Huh???
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Old 01-19-2008, 07:01 PM   #20
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Quote:
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In Exodus, there is a report God could print on stone, when in the company of Moses.

Exodus 31.18, " And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God."
Oh come on! That's so obviously engraving and NOT printing.
You saw the finished product? Come on, God can turn stone to paper and his finger to PC printer, you know that!
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