EthnAlln

I ask this question in all seriousness.

And I don't have in mind stem-cell research or abortion, or any of the other "moral" controversies. I'm talking about the healing of human ills. This came to me yesterday in the hospital. (By the way, I'm an atheist, asking this question of people who accept that there is a god who designed this world and cares about it.)

Without going into too many details, which are boring anyway, on Wednesday my doctor sent me to the emergency room for a spiral CT scan of my lungs. They found that I had pulmonary emboli. In others words, I have blood clots in my lungs. Lots of them. In both lungs. So they put me on Heparin and prescribed a course of Coumadin to follow up, and here I am, 48 hours later, home again and feeling fine with no restrictions on my activity.

Now we look at causes. My daughter had two difficult pregnancies, one that resulted in a baby born 11 weeks early. By prompt and vigorous intervention, the hospital provided her with two healthy babies, what would have been a medical miracle a generation ago, and no doubt many religious people who know us are still giving God the credit for this miracle.

Whatever God had to do with it, mere mortal science did genetic testing and found that my daughter has two hereditary blood-clotting defects: Factor V Leiden, and a protein C deficiency. Who did she inherit them from? I suppose we know now. At least, it's quite likely that I also have these defects, and that's why, in my mid-60s, I'm developing blood clots. As in my daughter's case, I'm taking anti-coagulants to prevent them.

Now, simple Hobbit that I am, I always assumed that if my body was a gift from God, it was meant for my good. And likewise my daughter was given her body for her good. But perhaps God is an evolutionist whose all-encompassing plan for the world involves my dying at a reasonable age instead of hanging on into curmudgeonhood, and my daughter was supposed to have two heart-breaking miscarriages, perhaps herself dying in the process.

And what are we doing? Instead of accepting the superior wisdom of the Almighty, we are impudently tinkering with the complex bundles of biochemistry that make up our bodies, and defying God's will. What's worse, we're getting away with it, temporarily. (I assume we'll both eventually be dead.) Is this an offense against God? A blasphemy against the wisdom of the Holy Spirit?

What do Christians think? I'm already myself admittedly damned by my notorious atheism. But my daughter is a Christian, and wants to go to heaven. Any advice?

MadPhatCat

*MPC uses his slightly above average intellect to think like a theist*

Well, I suppose most of your concerns can be waved away by saying that God wants humans to help each other. [Insert story about a dude praying for help from God in a flood, but refusing boats and helicopters]. If and when God decides to help you, it is through people, so there is no way to distinguish God-help from mere people-help.

EthnAlln

Yes, that's a universal get-out-of-jail-free card. Any defect in a human body, any menacing part of the universe, can be justified by saying that it provides for human beings to help one another. But how do we human beings know when to resist what happens naturally and when to accept the wisdom of the designer? Mother Theresa had NO interest in therapy; she worked entirely with people who were dying, to help them die in a way that she thought would please God. Is it possible for human beings to make an error in judgment on this point?

Imnotspecial

:banghead: There is a saying: Pray as if everything depended on God and do as if everything depended on you. That covers everything.:banghead:

EthnAlln

Excuse me, it doesn't. It may cut off thought, but it doesn't answer any questions. My question remains: Is it possible for Christians to "get it wrong" and fight against God's will without realizing it?

A secondary question: Is there ANY phenomenon at all that can't be "explained" by saying God deliberately built the world with defects in order to give human beings something to strive for? If so, the picture of God as an all-wise creator becomes vacuous. If someone builds a house for someone else and says, "Well, the roof leaks, the wiring has short circuits, and there is dry rot in the floor, but I didn't want you to get contented and lazy," would you hire that person to work for Habitat for Humanity?

Imnotspecial

Sorry, I think you misunderstood. My response was not in any way intended as a criticism to your question. Christians live by this quote and it covers them against criticism that their prayers might not be answered.

I am not sure what answer you are looking for. Since we both believe that God does not exist or interfere in human affairs your question becomes mute.

Presuming that a god exists and presuming that it is the god of the bible we might perhaps conclude that we should not endeavour to improve our situation because he said at the outset that "everything was good, indeed very good". On the other hand, he also said: "Subdue the earth"
Has the world become a better place since we have tried to do so? It seems to me that every time we improve something, another unforseen problem arises. I don't really want to believe that humanity has not made any progress at all, but it strikes me as a bit mysterious that we have been unable to solve our problems. In fact we seem to be almost at the brink of extinction.
I don't know if this makes any sense to you and if this is where you wanted to go with your question.

In any case, I am sorry to read about your health problems and I wish you well.

dancer_rnb

Another way to look at it would be to ask "Was it a good thing
we wiped out smallpox? Would it be a good thing to wipe out polio?"

Imnotspecial

You may be able to hire a different contractor, but you do not get to choose God. If he created a flawed world to keep us busy, then that's how it is. Of course that seems to me just another reason to not believe in God.

Imnotspecial

A good thing for the sick person. Not so good for the health industry.

premjan

Well, the health industry should not benefit at the cost of sick people.