Freethought & Rationalism Archive

stephan huller · 05-16-2012, 06:52 PM

The heavenly man has many more sons than the earthly man. If the sons of Adam are many, although they die, how much more the sons of the perfect man, they who do not die but are always begotten. The father makes a son, and the son has not the power to make a son. For he who has been begotten has not the power to beget, but the son gets brothers for himself, not sons. All who are begotten in the world are begotten in a natural way, and the others are nourished from the place whence they have been born. It is from being promised to the heavenly place that man receives nourishment. [...] him from the mouth. And had the word gone out from that place, it would be nourished from the mouth and it would become perfect. For it is by a kiss that the perfect conceive and give birth. For this reason we also kiss one another. We receive conception from the grace which is in one another. [gospel of philip]

stephan huller · 05-16-2012, 06:55 PM

He turned the treacherous Iscariot into a steed, when the Most Beloved Jesus trusted the disciples. He (Judas) indicated him to the night-watchman by a kiss on his hand. He delivered the Son of God to the foes. He betrayed Truth. For the sake of a rewrd that the Jews gave, he offered up his own lord and teacher. [manichaean hymn]

stephan huller · 05-16-2012, 06:57 PM

Those which exist have come forth from the Son and the Father like kisses, because of the multitude of some who kiss one another with a good, insatiable thought, the kiss being a unity, although it involves many kisses. This is to say, it is the Church consisting of many men that existed before the aeons, which is called, in the proper sense, "the aeons of the aeons." This is the nature of the holy imperishable spirits, upon which the Son rests, since it is his essence, just as the Father rests upon the Son. [tripartate tractate]

stephan huller · 05-16-2012, 06:59 PM

Therefore, all the emanations of the Father are pleromas, and the root of all his emanations is in the one who made them all grow up in himself. He assigned them their destinies. Each one, then, is manifest, in order that through their own thought <...>. For the place to which they send their thought, that place, their root, is what takes them up in all the heights, to the Father. They possess his head, which is rest for them, and they are supported, approaching him, as though to say that they have participated in his face by means of kisses. But they do not become manifest in this way, for they are not themselves exalted; (yet) neither did they lack the glory of the Father, nor did they think of him as small, nor that he is harsh, nor that he is wrathful, but (rather that) he is a being without evil, imperturbable, sweet, knowing all spaces before they have come into existence, and he had no need to be instructed. [gospel of truth]

stephan huller · 05-16-2012, 07:01 PM

When again sent forth after seven days, denoting the sevenfold operation of the Spirit, the dove brought back a fruitful olive branch; as some even who are baptized outside of the Church, if not destitute of the fatness of charity, may come after all, as it were in the evening, and be brought into the one communion by the mouth of the dove in the kiss of peace. [augustine faustus 12:20]

stephan huller · 05-16-2012, 07:03 PM

And Mary answered and said: "My Master, concerning the word which Thy power prophesied through David, to wit, 'Mercy and truth are met together, righteousness and peace have kissed each other; truth hath flourished on the earth, and righteousness hath looked down from heaven'--Thy power prophesied this word of old concerning Thee.

"When Thou wert a child, before the Spirit had descended upon Thee, when Thou wert in the vineyard with Joseph, the Spirit came down from the height, and came unto me in the house, like unto Thee, and I knew Him not, but thought that He was Thou. And He said unto me, 'Where is Jesus, my Brother, that I may go to meet Him?' And when He had said this unto me I was in doubt, and thought it was a phantom tempting me. I seized Him and bound Him to the foot of the bed which was in my house, until I had gone to find you in the field--Thee and Joseph, and I found you in the vineyard; Joseph was putting up the vine poles.

"It came to pass, therefore, when Thou didst hear me saying this thing unto Joseph, that Thou didst understand, and Thou wert joyful and saidest, 'Where is He, that I may see Him? Nay [rather] I am expecting Him in this place.' And it came to pass, when Joseph heard Thee say these words, that he was disturbed.

"We went together, we entered into the house, we found the Spirit bound to the bed, and we gazed upon Thee and Him, and found that Thou wert like unto Him. And He that was bound to the bed was unloosed; He embraced Thee and kissed Thee, and Thou also didst kiss Him; ye became one and the same being. [pistis sophia]

stephan huller · 05-16-2012, 07:08 PM

Then came one of them, who was called Gaisa [that is, Gardener], and said to the wise men: Do you want the rogue? They said: Where is he to be found? He answered: He is in the sanctuary,—that is to say, in the school-house. They said to him: Show him unto us. He answered them: We, his three hundred and ten disciples, have already sworn by the commandments, that we will not say of him who he is; but if ye come in the morning, give me the greeting, (That is the customary form of greeting probably the kiss of peace used among the followers of Jeschu, as we learn from B.'s recension) and I will go and make an obeisance before him, and before whom I make obeisance, he is the rogue. And they did so [toledoth yeshu]

sotto voce · 05-17-2012, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

An interesting fact which is well known to Samaritanologists. In Marqe (= the definitive exegesis of Holy Writ) it is not only Moses and Aaron who kiss

Quote:

How good to see them embracing there, between them great joy, the one kissing the other with tears in their eyes, having double love for one another. "Welcome, my brother," Aaron said to Moses, "The years have been too long for me since last seeing you. Time is short! The God of the world has proclaimed to me in your name."

But there is an interesting kissing exchange between Moses and Jacob and the sons of Aaron. It begins with the announcement of the death of Moses which was originally made to Joshua and then new carries to Eleazar, Ithamar and Phinehas:

Quote:

they saw Joshua standing weeping, they said to him, "What is the matter? Why are you weeping?" He answered them, his tears flowing down like rain, "My lord Moses this day seeks to go up to die." This statement was distressing to the holy priests and they were
gravely troubled when they heard this news from Joshua. They made haste to go, accompanied by the whole priestly house, and came to the great prophet Moses. When they reached him, they kissed his face on both sides and then fell at his feet. Phinehas the son of Eleazar was carrying the trumpet in his hand and standing before Moses weeping. The great prophet Moses said to him, "O grandson of my brother, stand you and Ithamar at the gate of the place of meeting, the trumpets in your hands, and blow a blast that all the congregation may hear and come here and be arrayed before me and I shall pronounce peace upon them." [Mimar Marqe 5:2]

Then after an elaborate ceremony Moses kisses the future high priest:

Quote:

He looked at Eleazar, situated on his right. He kissed his face and said to him, "My brother's son, O vice-regent of the Lord, O inheritor of the high priesthood, you are exalted above the status of ordinary priesthood which you have inherited, and your actions will take place in the holy Sanctuary and you will be worthy of that."

He looked at Ithamar and said to him, "My brother's son, you are an anointed priest and you will have charge of all the Levites and all the holy vessels. Concerning you and your father it is written by me, "So Eleazar and Ithamar served as priests in the lifetime of Aaron their father" (Num. iii. 4; Targ.). Keep your priesthood and all the holy things in your possession. Do not go astray from the way of the True One. Be righteous in yourself before the Judge who does not show partiality."

He looked at Phinehas, seated on his left, and wept and kissed his hand, the hand by which he had taken the spear and pierced the adulterer and adulteress, so that he removed wrath from against Israel. He said to him, "My brother's grandson, your zeal is manifest among all the generations. When you see a man erring, be up and slay him, as
you did Zimri and Cozbit, and you preserved six hundred thousand by your zeal along with the zeal of the Lord of the world."

He looked at Joshua the son of Nun and said to him, "O my servant, my pupil, be strong and of good courage (Deut. xxxi. 23). Y o u are the one who will lead the descendants of Abraham, the children of Isaac, the tribes of Jacob. For you shall bring this people into the land (ibid.) sworn to the Righteous ones. The sun will shine upon you and the
Lord will go before you. He will be with you [ibid.). He who has God with him shall suffer no affliction. Do not fear or be dismayed (Deut. xxxi. 8 ) .

The last thing he said to Joshua was "He who has God with him, of whom should he be afraid?" [ibid]

Then there is another elaborate farewell where all the people kiss Moses on the hand:

Quote:

The moment the great prophet Moses reached the foot of Mount Nebo, all the tribes went forward to him, tribe after tribe, and kissed his hand and saluted him, till the whole congregation had finished. Eleazar, Ithamar and Phinehas approached him, embraced him and kissed his face and saluted him. They were followed b y Joshua the son of Nun his minister, who went forward, kissed his face, prostrated himself at his feet and said, "Peace be to you, O faithful one of the house of God.\

Peace be to you, O treasure of prophethood.
Peace be to you, O piercer of veils.
Peace be to you, you who trod the fire.
Peace be to you, you who approached the deep darkness.
Peace be to you, you who wear the brightness of light.
Peace be to you, O receiver of the two tablets.
Peace be to you, whom the Lord addressed face to face openly, not secretly.
Peace be to you, the like of whom has not arisen and never will arise.
O lord of the prophets, it is hard to part from you this day."

After this the great prophet Moses lifed up his voice and said, "O congregation, be in peace, be in peace. After this day I shall not receive from or give to you ever again." When the congregation heard this statement they were considerably upset. They raised their voice, weeping, and said,

"By your life, O apostle of God, remain with us a little longer.
By your life, O seal of the prophets, stop with us a little"—but God called him inwardly, "Make haste!" [ibid 5.3]

The thing to keep your eye on is the fact that Moses only kisses the face of the high priest (Aaron, Eliezar).

The thing to keep your eye on is the fact that this has bugger all to do with the Bible.

stephan huller · 05-17-2012, 09:04 AM

I can put up with your nonsense only to a certain point. the samaritan exegesis of the pentateuch has nothing to do with the bible? you are nuts

sotto voce · 05-17-2012, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

I can put up with your nonsense only to a certain point. the samaritan exegesis of the pentateuch has nothing to do with the bible? you are nuts

No more nuts than the vicious little shites who accused Jesus of being a Samaritan, probably the worst thing ever said to him. See Jn 8:48.

Don't talk about nonsense, stephan. You don't know enough to do that.

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05-16-2012, 06:52 PM	#121
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	The heavenly man has many more sons than the earthly man. If the sons of Adam are many, although they die, how much more the sons of the perfect man, they who do not die but are always begotten. The father makes a son, and the son has not the power to make a son. For he who has been begotten has not the power to beget, but the son gets brothers for himself, not sons. All who are begotten in the world are begotten in a natural way, and the others are nourished from the place whence they have been born. It is from being promised to the heavenly place that man receives nourishment. [...] him from the mouth. And had the word gone out from that place, it would be nourished from the mouth and it would become perfect. For it is by a kiss that the perfect conceive and give birth. For this reason we also kiss one another. We receive conception from the grace which is in one another. [gospel of philip]

05-16-2012, 06:55 PM	#122
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	He turned the treacherous Iscariot into a steed, when the Most Beloved Jesus trusted the disciples. He (Judas) indicated him to the night-watchman by a kiss on his hand. He delivered the Son of God to the foes. He betrayed Truth. For the sake of a rewrd that the Jews gave, he offered up his own lord and teacher. [manichaean hymn]

05-16-2012, 06:57 PM	#123
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Those which exist have come forth from the Son and the Father like kisses, because of the multitude of some who kiss one another with a good, insatiable thought, the kiss being a unity, although it involves many kisses. This is to say, it is the Church consisting of many men that existed before the aeons, which is called, in the proper sense, "the aeons of the aeons." This is the nature of the holy imperishable spirits, upon which the Son rests, since it is his essence, just as the Father rests upon the Son. [tripartate tractate]

05-16-2012, 06:59 PM	#124
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Therefore, all the emanations of the Father are pleromas, and the root of all his emanations is in the one who made them all grow up in himself. He assigned them their destinies. Each one, then, is manifest, in order that through their own thought <...>. For the place to which they send their thought, that place, their root, is what takes them up in all the heights, to the Father. They possess his head, which is rest for them, and they are supported, approaching him, as though to say that they have participated in his face by means of kisses. But they do not become manifest in this way, for they are not themselves exalted; (yet) neither did they lack the glory of the Father, nor did they think of him as small, nor that he is harsh, nor that he is wrathful, but (rather that) he is a being without evil, imperturbable, sweet, knowing all spaces before they have come into existence, and he had no need to be instructed. [gospel of truth]

05-16-2012, 07:01 PM	#125
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	When again sent forth after seven days, denoting the sevenfold operation of the Spirit, the dove brought back a fruitful olive branch; as some even who are baptized outside of the Church, if not destitute of the fatness of charity, may come after all, as it were in the evening, and be brought into the one communion by the mouth of the dove in the kiss of peace. [augustine faustus 12:20]

05-16-2012, 07:03 PM	#126
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	And Mary answered and said: "My Master, concerning the word which Thy power prophesied through David, to wit, 'Mercy and truth are met together, righteousness and peace have kissed each other; truth hath flourished on the earth, and righteousness hath looked down from heaven'--Thy power prophesied this word of old concerning Thee. "When Thou wert a child, before the Spirit had descended upon Thee, when Thou wert in the vineyard with Joseph, the Spirit came down from the height, and came unto me in the house, like unto Thee, and I knew Him not, but thought that He was Thou. And He said unto me, 'Where is Jesus, my Brother, that I may go to meet Him?' And when He had said this unto me I was in doubt, and thought it was a phantom tempting me. I seized Him and bound Him to the foot of the bed which was in my house, until I had gone to find you in the field--Thee and Joseph, and I found you in the vineyard; Joseph was putting up the vine poles. "It came to pass, therefore, when Thou didst hear me saying this thing unto Joseph, that Thou didst understand, and Thou wert joyful and saidest, 'Where is He, that I may see Him? Nay [rather] I am expecting Him in this place.' And it came to pass, when Joseph heard Thee say these words, that he was disturbed. "We went together, we entered into the house, we found the Spirit bound to the bed, and we gazed upon Thee and Him, and found that Thou wert like unto Him. And He that was bound to the bed was unloosed; He embraced Thee and kissed Thee, and Thou also didst kiss Him; ye became one and the same being. [pistis sophia]

05-16-2012, 07:08 PM	#127
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Then came one of them, who was called Gaisa [that is, Gardener], and said to the wise men: Do you want the rogue? They said: Where is he to be found? He answered: He is in the sanctuary,—that is to say, in the school-house. They said to him: Show him unto us. He answered them: We, his three hundred and ten disciples, have already sworn by the commandments, that we will not say of him who he is; but if ye come in the morning, give me the greeting, (That is the customary form of greeting probably the kiss of peace used among the followers of Jeschu, as we learn from B.'s recension) and I will go and make an obeisance before him, and before whom I make obeisance, he is the rogue. And they did so [toledoth yeshu]

05-17-2012, 09:04 AM	#129
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	I can put up with your nonsense only to a certain point. the samaritan exegesis of the pentateuch has nothing to do with the bible? you are nuts

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