Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Viti · 11-05-2003, 05:36 PM

There were many Jewish men claiming to be Messiah which means "King" as in Earthly king.

The Josephus reference is not 100% authenticated...what else you got?

Biff the unclean · 11-05-2003, 05:36 PM

Jewish tombs containing artifiacts from the first century have been found where the outskirts of "Nazareth" would be. Appropriate, as Jewish tombs were traditionally located on the outskirts of town.
The town in Israel called Nazareth is named for the place in the Bible, much like Mt Sinai is named after the mountain in the OT.
There are at present four contenders but as of yet no one can honestly claim to have found Jesus' Nazareth

Of course the town was not mentioned by Josephus, scholars speculate the town to be no bigger than 400 people, and to have been clustered in as many as four different proximity location... small enough and spread enough to easily be overlooked by a historian with a much busier agenda.
And it's too close to Camelot.

What scientific evidence exists to disprove the existence of Jesus as a man?
The Romans kept records of all would be Messiahs, but not Jesus. Jesus exploits all repeat those of Hellenistic gods, primarily Dionysos and Mithra.
Minor characters in the NT are recorded by history, Barabus, Caiaphas, Pilate, even Simon the Magician. But not Jesus or any of his Apostles.
There is no need to "disprove" Jesus as a man since there never was any proof that he was.

Spenser · 11-05-2003, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HuggyBear
I'm vaguely familiar with the article...

Sources:

Finegan, Jack The Archaeology of the New Testament. Princeton: Princeton Univ. Press, 1992

McRay, John Archaeology and the New Testament Grand Rapids: Baker, 1991

I am interested, but not enough to go get hardcopy nor do I wish for these gentleman to profit off me. Might you have any internet links?

HuggyBear · 11-05-2003, 05:40 PM

Let me try to find you something. Sorry, I don't have a link off hand. I can sell you a hard copy for $50...

Well, here is an internet site kinda along the same lines:

http://www.probe.org/docs/arch-nt.html

It doesn't adress the issue of the location of Nazareth, but it does have a small quanity of information of other issues, like the ordering of the deaths of all small children under the age of 2 by Herod.

HuggyBear · 11-05-2003, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biff the unclean
What scientific evidence exists to disprove the existence of Jesus as a man?
The Romans kept records of all would be Messiahs, but not Jesus. Jesus exploits all repeat those of Hellenistic gods, primarily Dionysos and Mithra.
Minor characters in the NT are recorded by history, Barabus, Caiaphas, Pilate, even Simon the Magician. But not Jesus or any of his Apostles.
There is no need to "disprove" Jesus as a man since there never was any proof that he was.

Got a source?

Viti · 11-05-2003, 05:42 PM

How can you source records that DON'T exist?

HuggyBear · 11-05-2003, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LadyShea
There were many Jewish men claiming to be Messiah which means "King" as in Earthly king.

The Josephus reference is not 100% authenticated...what else you got?

Would you agree Joesphus is indeed a historian? Even if the reference was interpolated by later Christians, the fact remains that Jesus was adressed by Josphus.

HuggyBear · 11-05-2003, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LadyShea
How can you source records that DON'T exist?

Don't bog down on legalisitics.. I want a reference, a link, a "source" of information...

Viti · 11-05-2003, 05:54 PM

Josephus was a historian, the Jesus references in his work are believed to have been added under Constantine.

Quote:

Its language is Christian. Every line proclaims it the work of a Christian writer. �If it be lawful to call him a man.� �He was the Christ.� �He appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning, him.� These are the words of a Christian, a believer in the divinity of Christ. Josephus was a Jew, a devout believer in the Jewish faith-- the last man in the world to acknowledge the divinity of Christ.http://freethought.mbdojo.com/josephus.html

Spenser · 11-05-2003, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HuggyBear
Don't bog down on legalisitics.. I want a reference, a link, a "source" of information...

Once again then I suggest this one:

The Jesus Puzzle.

Me's thinkin this will get transported over to BC&H

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11-05-2003, 05:36 PM	#11
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	There were many Jewish men claiming to be Messiah which means "King" as in Earthly king. The Josephus reference is not 100% authenticated...what else you got?

11-05-2003, 05:36 PM	#12
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	Jewish tombs containing artifiacts from the first century have been found where the outskirts of "Nazareth" would be. Appropriate, as Jewish tombs were traditionally located on the outskirts of town. The town in Israel called Nazareth is named for the place in the Bible, much like Mt Sinai is named after the mountain in the OT. There are at present four contenders but as of yet no one can honestly claim to have found Jesus' Nazareth Of course the town was not mentioned by Josephus, scholars speculate the town to be no bigger than 400 people, and to have been clustered in as many as four different proximity location... small enough and spread enough to easily be overlooked by a historian with a much busier agenda. And it's too close to Camelot. What scientific evidence exists to disprove the existence of Jesus as a man? The Romans kept records of all would be Messiahs, but not Jesus. Jesus exploits all repeat those of Hellenistic gods, primarily Dionysos and Mithra. Minor characters in the NT are recorded by history, Barabus, Caiaphas, Pilate, even Simon the Magician. But not Jesus or any of his Apostles. There is no need to "disprove" Jesus as a man since there never was any proof that he was.

11-05-2003, 05:40 PM	#14
HuggyBear Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta Posts: 43	Let me try to find you something. Sorry, I don't have a link off hand. I can sell you a hard copy for $50... Well, here is an internet site kinda along the same lines: http://www.probe.org/docs/arch-nt.html It doesn't adress the issue of the location of Nazareth, but it does have a small quanity of information of other issues, like the ordering of the deaths of all small children under the age of 2 by Herod.

11-05-2003, 05:42 PM	#16
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	How can you source records that DON'T exist?

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