Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Biff the unclean · 06-17-2005, 04:19 PM

Ya know Mace, the next thing for you to face is that there is no afterlife. When you die, you will really be dead. The people who you loved who have died are also really dead so you are going to have to come to terms with their deaths all over again.

Alien Gurgey · 06-17-2005, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mace

I really just came across this thought randomly while pondering one day.

And for most of you you probably feel like stamping a huge "DUH" across my face but...

Isn't it true that most Christians (and many other religions, I just mainly mean Christians.) only worship out of selfishness?

A: The Christian worships so they are saved from hell.
B: The Christian then worships for the sake of continuing to be saved from hell.
C: The Christian then says that they love their God.

I mean that MUST be the priority list for most people. It all comes down to the base of wanting to go to Heaven. It's like a kid on his birthday! He wants this and that and this. Then loves his parents for getting him all the cool gizmos.

And for that matter.

Would you go to hell to save a friend's soul if hell was real and humans had souls?
______________________________________________
(3)Loving God
(2)Wanting to be saved from hell
(1)Getting saved in order to be saved from hell

The base of it all. The priority list of most (all?) Christians.

Well if you ask them theists, most will say that this is the lowest form of belief/relationship. Acceptable but there is more, far better form you should strife for.

It is possible to do it purely out of love (as crazy as it sound). As in, you don't really care about afterlife or hell or heaven, you just love this diety/authority/father figure/creator/whatever.

It is still selfish, but not out of fear.

Strange? Impossible? Crazy? Yes. But some really do it like that.

Biff the unclean · 06-17-2005, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alien Gurgey

Strange? Impossible? Crazy? Yes. But some really do it like that.

I think the word you are searching for is pathetic

Alien Gurgey · 06-17-2005, 06:00 PM

That!

But only because we are ath/agn.

If god do exist won't that be the best possible relationship?

Biff the unclean · 06-17-2005, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alien Gurgey

If god do exist won't that be the best possible relationship?

If the god of Jesus and the bible existed He would be in the process of torturing billions of your fellow men in the pit of Hell.
The only moral relationship you could possibly have with Him is one of opposition.

Alien Gurgey · 06-17-2005, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biff the unclean

If the god of Jesus and the bible existed He would be in the process of torturing billions of your fellow men in the pit of Hell.
The only moral relationship you could possibly have with Him is one of opposition.

That is very true, Biff.

But can we win?

Biff the unclean · 06-17-2005, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alien Gurgey

That is very true, Biff.

But can we win?

The OT mentions that iron chariots can prevail over Him, I imagine an F16 would work as well

Alien Gurgey · 06-17-2005, 07:20 PM

You win. :notworthy

FRC · 06-18-2005, 04:08 AM

You'd think that it would be a more honest setup, actually. God tells man, OK, I made you all and you're all going to heaven (although there will be a temp purgatory for you evil-doers) and you can choose to just go about your business, or if you want you can create a relationship with me during your earthly life if you want a little TLC.

Thus we would have God finding out: who really loves and appreciates him most; and after a while practically every human would be worshipping him after all by default, because there aren't any threats and no grovelling is required. In fact if God had set it up like this and continously revealed himself to ALL humanity in perfect terms so there weren't any religious wars and stuff, he could pretty well make a clean sweep of it.

I mean, be honest with your creation and take responsibility for the well-being of your created.

But true love would be required for that kind of an arrangement.

coltsfan · 06-18-2005, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Isn't it true that most Christians (and many other religions, I just mainly mean Christians.) only worship out of selfishness?

Would you say that most atheist don't believe out of hatred? Or are there a wide variety of reasons?

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06-17-2005, 04:19 PM	#11
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	Ya know Mace, the next thing for you to face is that there is no afterlife. When you die, you will really be dead. The people who you loved who have died are also really dead so you are going to have to come to terms with their deaths all over again.

06-17-2005, 06:00 PM	#14
Alien Gurgey Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Azad Posts: 207	That! But only because we are ath/agn. If god do exist won't that be the best possible relationship?

06-17-2005, 07:20 PM	#18
Alien Gurgey Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Azad Posts: 207	You win. :notworthy

06-18-2005, 04:08 AM	#19
FRC Junior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Abbotsford, BC Canada Posts: 49	You'd think that it would be a more honest setup, actually. God tells man, OK, I made you all and you're all going to heaven (although there will be a temp purgatory for you evil-doers) and you can choose to just go about your business, or if you want you can create a relationship with me during your earthly life if you want a little TLC. Thus we would have God finding out: who really loves and appreciates him most; and after a while practically every human would be worshipping him after all by default, because there aren't any threats and no grovelling is required. In fact if God had set it up like this and continously revealed himself to ALL humanity in perfect terms so there weren't any religious wars and stuff, he could pretty well make a clean sweep of it. I mean, be honest with your creation and take responsibility for the well-being of your created. But true love would be required for that kind of an arrangement.

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