Toto

And how do you translate kyrios? Paul uses the term Lord for both god and Jesus.

This phrase has too many possible meanings.

aa5874

It is mind-boggling that Barre does NOT even realize that he has done EXACTLY what MJers have claimed was done.

Barre has used WRITTEN SOURCES, even Known UNRELIABLE sources to CONSTRUCT an Historical Jesus.

The NT Jesus was DERIVED the very same way from WRITTEN sources, Hebrew Scripture, and NOT History.

Barre's Jesus SAID words that were DERIVED from PSALMS 21.

Barre's Jesus is CONSTRUCTED NO different to Jesus of the Gospels.

Both of them said, " 'eloi (sic) 'eloi (sic) lama sabachtani.

Both of them are DERIVED from Hebrew Scripture.

Both are INVENTED MYTHS.

Doug Shaver

That depends on where you set the bar for making sense.

lmbarre

Why are you not offering your interpretation as requested? Go ahead. . . please. . . .

Vorkosigan

barre, clearly, Toto offered another possible interpretation -- that adelphos is used in the sense of brother believer -- it is a title, not a description of a relationship. All believers were brothers in the lord.

In any case your understanding of the passage is faulty -- the key word there is the definite article before adelphos which makes James THE brother of the Lord, perhaps a title he held as head of the community, or perhaps the writer of that passage is merely noting that James is one of the brothers of the community there.

As Earl Doherty pointed out once, that definite article is quite a small peg to hang the historicity of Jesus on.....

In any case, Detering has shown that the passage is a later interpolation. See The Fabricated Paul. Here's the USCCB version of Galations:

• 18 Then after three years* I went up to Jerusalem to confer with Cephas and remained with him for fifteen days.m 19 But I did not see any other of the apostles,n only James the brother of the Lord. 20 (As to what I am writing to you, behold, before God, I am not lying.) 21 Then I went into the regions of Syria and Cilicia. 22 And I was unknown personally to the churches of Judea that are in Christ; 23 they only kept hearing that “the one who once was persecuting us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.” 24 So they glorified God because of me. 1 Then after fourteen years I again went up to Jerusalem with Barnabas,* taking Titus along also. 2 I went up in accord with a revelation, and I presented to them the gospel that I preach to the Gentiles—but privately to those of repute—so that I might not be running, or have run, in vain.

The writer of this passage makes a tell-tale sign of lying (swearing he is telling the truth, when there is no call to do so), and in 2:2 he presents to "them" -- but who is the pronoun referring to? The interpolator didn't change the pronoun -- it refers all the way back to 1:17. All the text in between is an interpolation. Tertullian cites the Marcionite version, which has only trip, and I believe Iranaeus also knows of only one trip.

The entire passage with "brother of the lord" is likely interpolated when the letter was reworked.

Detering also observes that in Gal 1:17 and in 2:6 "Paul" refers to the apostles as if they were already long past.... I quote:

• "Gal 1:17: “Nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were
  apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia; and
  again I returned to Damascus.”
  Gal 2:6: “And from those who were reputed to be something—what they once were makes no difference to me.”
  Why were? “Are” the apostles then no longer present
  when the author of Galatians writes his letter? Have they
  already died?"

You can read the entire work online. Detering has posted it in English and German. Michael Hoffman hosts it here:

http://www.egodeath.com/TheFabricatedPaul.htm

Vorkosigan

lmbarre

How do you know my name? Why do you think I might be an impostor?

aa5874

You very well know that the Greek word "adelphos" has SEVERAL meanings:

1. a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother

2. having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman

3. any fellow or man

4. a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection

5. an associate in employment or office

6. brethren in Christ
a. his brothers by blood
b. all men
c. apostles
d. Christians, as those who are exalted to the same heavenly place.

Now, you ought to know that Galatians is part of the Canon which CLEARLY states that Jesus was FATHERED by a Holy Ghost and was God the Creator. See Matthew 1.18-20, Luke 1.26-35 and John 1.1-4

You ought to know that it was deemed an Heresy by the Church that Jesus was human with a human father. See "Against Heresies", "Refutation of All Heresies" and "Prescription Against the Heretics".

You KNOW that in Galatians 1.1 that the Galatians writer claimed he was NOT the apostle of a Human being and did NOT get his gospel from a man but from God's Son After his resurrection. See Galatians 4.4.

Based on these facts, the very LEAST likely meaning for "adelphos" is that the Galatians Jesus was human.

You MUST know who Jesus was in the Canon before you attempt to interpret "adelphos" in Galatians 1.19.

It is most absurd to put forward the idea that the Canon of the Church contains the very Heresy that the Church itself condemned.

Doug Shaver

Because I've had mucho experience discussing these things with true believers. They usually are very good a formulating questions so that there can't be any right answer except their answer.

lmbarre

Apologies for the delayed response. If we are dealing with an interpolation, then that would impact how we are to understand the phrase, "the brother of the Lord." Let me ask you to clarify what verses comprise the alleged interpolation. For some reason,I am fuzzy on this.

Duvduv

If the word adelphos has so many options, then why do English translators all use the single word, "brother" instead of any of the others?