Freethought & Rationalism Archive

beanpie · 05-23-2004, 02:05 PM

Quote:

in reality we are all of mixed heritage)

Are you suggesting that any amount of blood, not Black, makes one not "Black?

beanpie · 05-23-2004, 02:15 PM

and the HAIR ON HIS HEAD LIKE THE PURE WOOL. (Dan.7:9.]
of course, this is not referring to Jesus.

Quote:

Notice it says "white like wool" Not kinky like wool.

Quote:

and the HAIR ON HIS HEAD LIKE THE PURE WOOL

ancient of days

Vorkosigan · 05-23-2004, 03:30 PM

Vintage ~E~ material

beanpie · 05-23-2004, 05:00 PM

JEWS AND EGYPTIANS, BLACKNESS OF
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
VOLUME I - BOOK VIII - CHAPTER VII - ANACALYSIS
BY Mr. Godrey Higgins - 1833

JEWS HATE THE FEMALE PRINCIPLE--JEWS AND EGYPTIANS, BLACKNESS OF--
OBSERVATIONS ON THE JEWS--SAMARITANS--GENERAL CONCLUSIONS

Page 433

The excessive hatred of the Jews to the adoration of the Queen of
Heaven, Milcomb and Asteroth of the Sidonians, is visible every where
in the Bible, as well as to that of the Bull Apis, under the names of
Baal, Moloch, Thamas, &qc., &qc. though the hypothesis that the Jews
were a branch of a sect which arose in the disputes of India about
the Linga and Ioni may be new, when every thing is considered, I
trust it will not be thought improbable. It seems rationally to
account for circumstances which, as far as I am ware, have not been
explained before, and to remove many difficulties. And I think when
it is well understood and duly considered, it will be found to be in
favour of Christian and Jewish religions, and not against them.

Page 434

"Major Orme* reckons eighty-four castes in India, each of which has a
physiognomy peculiar to itself. The more civilized tribes," he
says, "are more comely in their appearance. The noble order of the
Brahmins are the fairest and the most comely. The mountaineers most
resemble Negroes in their countenances and their hair. The natives of
the hilly districts of Bengal and Bahar can hardly be distinguished
by their features from the modern Ethiopians."** All this accords
very well with my theory respecting the black Buddha. Probably at the
time the black Jews divided from their countrymen, they were black--
and, from being always few in number and low in rank, and breeding
entirely in their own caste, they have kept their ancient sable
complexion. It has been observed, that the figures in all the old
caves of India have the appearance of Negroes.*** This tends to prove
not only the extreme antiquity of these caves, but also the original
Negro character of the natives.

* Indostan, Introd. ** Pritchard, Phys. Hist. p.392.

*** Hunter, in Archæologia, Vol. VII.; Dr. F. Buchanan, Asiat. Res.
Vol. VI.

Dr. Pritchard has most clearly proved, as I have stated in Book V.
Chap. XIII. Sect. 2, that the ancient Egyptians were Negroes. He
observes that "the Greeks writers always mention the Egyptians as
being black in their complexions. ... Herodotus, who was well
acquainted with the Egyptians, mentions the blackness of their
complexions more than once. ...*

* Pritchard, Phys. Hist. p.377.

For the truth of the theory which I have advanced--that the Jews did
originally come from India, in addition to the circumstantial
evidence, I have as good proof as it is possible for written records
to afford. This I say roundly of the testimony of Megasthenes. He
cannot be supposed to have had any prejudice against the Jews : his
observations respecting their being an Indian tribe seems to have
fallen from him merely as illustrative of the character of the
Hindoos. The Hindoos were the object of the book, not the Jews. He
had no interested motive to induce him to misrepresent or to deceive;
and the priests cannot here set up even their hackneyed argument of
hatred of the Jews to account for or obviate any thing which is
unfavourable to them, as his assertion is merely confirmatory of
Mose's narrative--that they came from the East, and is in praise of
them or their system. The passage, which I have noticed before, where
he observes that the Indians and the Jews were the only people who
had any true idea of chronology and the nature of the creation of the
world, is very striking, when coupled with what I have just laid
before the reader. It all tends strongly to prove the close connexion
between the Indians and the Jews.

Page 435

Another reason for the continuance of the dark complexion of the
Jews, and their marked national character, is to be found in their
ancient law, which forbade them from marrying out of their own tribe.
This law was long anterior to Moses, and was only re-enacted by him.
We have, perhaps, the first appearance of it, in the esoteric history
of Jacob and Esau. ... and he was excluded that his children might
not inherit.* The same thing happened to Moses, who married an
Ethiopian woman, as I have before pointed out, and therefore his
children did not inherit; but the supreme power and the priesthood
descended to the sons of Aaron, his nephews. ...

* Vide Gen. xxvi. 34, 35.

http://members.tripod.com/~pc93/anacv1b8.htm

Baidarka · 05-23-2004, 05:07 PM

Quote:
in reality we are all of mixed heritage)

Are you suggesting that any amount of blood, not Black, makes one not "Black?"
Dear Mr. Beanpie

I am not an expert on this racial identity business please inform us. What percentage of African heritage makes one Black?
Is Tiger Woods Black man? He doesn't think so.
Was Charlie Mingus a Black Man? He didn't think so.
Was Elijah Mohammed a Black Man? I don't think so.
Tiger Woods says that to classify him as Black is to disrespect his Mother and the heritage he received from her family.

Quote:
Do you realize that not all black skinned people are Africans

REALLY? You don't say? And all this time, I thought... "
The Web page that you referred us to suggests that both Buddha and Krishna were Africans.
Even if we were to agree that they both had black skin, how would this make them Africans? Millions of people from India have black skin and are not African.

Quote:
Martin Luther King

Many people believe this was a "great" man. I do not.

To me, it is not great, to beg your ex-master, for a room in his house. Me thinks it would have been much better to encouage Blacks to build their own house and "go for self". As an ex-slave, what would you do?
Your simplistic view of MLK betrays you and proves that you really know nothing about history and reality. MLK stood up against real evil and he changed the world. Your disrespect of a really great Black Man is quite pathetic especially in light of your embrace of a mythical Black Jesus ( adding myth to myth).

mrmoderate · 05-23-2004, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Evil One

Whoa there. Two points: firstly, Ham is a fictitious character. Yes, the ancient Jews thought that Africans descedn from Ham. Unfortunately, the ancient Jews were wrong.

Secondly, pretty much everything we know about the Canaanites and the Phoenicians makes them, like the Israelites and today's arabs, a Semitic people. They are very close realtives, ethnically speaking, of the Israelites. True, Jewish legend has them desceding from Ham instead of Shem. However, no one said that actual real-world ethnic groupings have to reflect the divisions that the ancient Jews put in their legend.

IT'S A FAIRY TALE. A fairy tale written so the Israelites could justify their bad treatment (in another fairy tale) of their close kin the Canaanites.

Evidence? I live in Britain. I know of no evidence of Phoenician settlements here (although there is evidence that they sailed here to trade).

Yeah, whatever. Can I say again: even if you were right, which you aren't, you would still be applying our modern concepts of racial groups onto an age that did not have such concepts. Even if the Phoenicians were physically what we would call "Black", they would not have used their skin colour as the defining feature of their ethnicity, and so could not be said to be part of some Black ethnic group. And aside from that, they were a Semitic people speakign a semitic language!

How do you know these things? Where is your proof?

beanpie · 05-23-2004, 05:26 PM

CORRECTION

The Bible does not say that is a description of Jesus, in Revelation...

Quote:

...one like a son of man,...

beanpie · 05-23-2004, 05:36 PM

Quote:

The Web page that you referred us to suggests that both Buddha and Krishna were Africans.

Please, point this out.

mrmoderate · 05-23-2004, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beanpie

The word Semite is from semi which means half. Half what? Half BLACK!
(mulatto!) Semite refers to the descendants of Shem, one of Noah's
sons. The word originates from the Latin prefix semi which means half.
"half Black and half white... therefore Black (since Black is genetically
dominant)" points out Dr. Cress Welsing. Historian Cheikh Anta Diop
also points out that the "Semitic" arises in the 4th millennia B.C. from
crossbreeding between Black inhabitants of the holy land and white
northern invaders. While many Semites (such as Jews & gypsies) have
mixed so much with whites that they've forgotten or deny their African
roots, racism (whtie supremacy) will never let them forget this no matter
how light-skinned they become, as proved by Hitler, who mandated their
destruction because they were classified by whites as "non-white" peple
originating in Africa."
http://www.ibiblio.org/nge/blacked/bl4.html

Interesting; I have never heard this definition before. As a matter of fact, neither has any other rational person.

The "sem" in semitic refers to Shem and has no etymological association with "semi" which refers to "partial". Semites have only been associated primarily with Jews since the 1950's. Any person of any race from the wandering tribes of the Middle East can be reffered to as semitic. For this reason I refuse to use the term anti-semitic when referring to anti-Jewish. A more accurate definition of "antisemitic" would be bigoted agains someone based on his/her particular race.

beanpie · 05-23-2004, 05:59 PM

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000.

Semitic

SYLLABICATION: Se·mit·ic
PRONUNCIATION: s-mtk
ADJECTIVE: 1. Of or relating to the Semites or their languages or cultures. 2. Of, relating to, or constituting a subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic language group that includes Arabic, Hebrew, Amharic, and Aramaic.

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05-23-2004, 03:30 PM	#53
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	Vintage ~E~ material

05-23-2004, 05:00 PM	#54
beanpie Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: voston Posts: 699	JEWS AND EGYPTIANS, BLACKNESS OF ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- VOLUME I - BOOK VIII - CHAPTER VII - ANACALYSIS BY Mr. Godrey Higgins - 1833 JEWS HATE THE FEMALE PRINCIPLE--JEWS AND EGYPTIANS, BLACKNESS OF-- OBSERVATIONS ON THE JEWS--SAMARITANS--GENERAL CONCLUSIONS Page 433 The excessive hatred of the Jews to the adoration of the Queen of Heaven, Milcomb and Asteroth of the Sidonians, is visible every where in the Bible, as well as to that of the Bull Apis, under the names of Baal, Moloch, Thamas, &qc., &qc. though the hypothesis that the Jews were a branch of a sect which arose in the disputes of India about the Linga and Ioni may be new, when every thing is considered, I trust it will not be thought improbable. It seems rationally to account for circumstances which, as far as I am ware, have not been explained before, and to remove many difficulties. And I think when it is well understood and duly considered, it will be found to be in favour of Christian and Jewish religions, and not against them. Page 434 "Major Orme* reckons eighty-four castes in India, each of which has a physiognomy peculiar to itself. The more civilized tribes," he says, "are more comely in their appearance. The noble order of the Brahmins are the fairest and the most comely. The mountaineers most resemble Negroes in their countenances and their hair. The natives of the hilly districts of Bengal and Bahar can hardly be distinguished by their features from the modern Ethiopians." All this accords very well with my theory respecting the black Buddha. Probably at the time the black Jews divided from their countrymen, they were black-- and, from being always few in number and low in rank, and breeding entirely in their own caste, they have kept their ancient sable complexion. It has been observed, that the figures in all the old caves of India have the appearance of Negroes.* This tends to prove not only the extreme antiquity of these caves, but also the original Negro character of the natives. * Indostan, Introd. Pritchard, Phys. Hist. p.392. * Hunter, in Archæologia, Vol. VII.; Dr. F. Buchanan, Asiat. Res. Vol. VI. Dr. Pritchard has most clearly proved, as I have stated in Book V. Chap. XIII. Sect. 2, that the ancient Egyptians were Negroes. He observes that "the Greeks writers always mention the Egyptians as being black in their complexions. ... Herodotus, who was well acquainted with the Egyptians, mentions the blackness of their complexions more than once. ...* * Pritchard, Phys. Hist. p.377. For the truth of the theory which I have advanced--that the Jews did originally come from India, in addition to the circumstantial evidence, I have as good proof as it is possible for written records to afford. This I say roundly of the testimony of Megasthenes. He cannot be supposed to have had any prejudice against the Jews : his observations respecting their being an Indian tribe seems to have fallen from him merely as illustrative of the character of the Hindoos. The Hindoos were the object of the book, not the Jews. He had no interested motive to induce him to misrepresent or to deceive; and the priests cannot here set up even their hackneyed argument of hatred of the Jews to account for or obviate any thing which is unfavourable to them, as his assertion is merely confirmatory of Mose's narrative--that they came from the East, and is in praise of them or their system. The passage, which I have noticed before, where he observes that the Indians and the Jews were the only people who had any true idea of chronology and the nature of the creation of the world, is very striking, when coupled with what I have just laid before the reader. It all tends strongly to prove the close connexion between the Indians and the Jews. Page 435 Another reason for the continuance of the dark complexion of the Jews, and their marked national character, is to be found in their ancient law, which forbade them from marrying out of their own tribe. This law was long anterior to Moses, and was only re-enacted by him. We have, perhaps, the first appearance of it, in the esoteric history of Jacob and Esau. ... and he was excluded that his children might not inherit.* The same thing happened to Moses, who married an Ethiopian woman, as I have before pointed out, and therefore his children did not inherit; but the supreme power and the priesthood descended to the sons of Aaron, his nephews. ... * Vide Gen. xxvi. 34, 35. http://members.tripod.com/~pc93/anacv1b8.htm

05-23-2004, 05:07 PM	#55
Baidarka Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 590	Quote: in reality we are all of mixed heritage) Are you suggesting that any amount of blood, not Black, makes one not "Black?" Dear Mr. Beanpie I am not an expert on this racial identity business please inform us. What percentage of African heritage makes one Black? Is Tiger Woods Black man? He doesn't think so. Was Charlie Mingus a Black Man? He didn't think so. Was Elijah Mohammed a Black Man? I don't think so. Tiger Woods says that to classify him as Black is to disrespect his Mother and the heritage he received from her family. Quote: Do you realize that not all black skinned people are Africans REALLY? You don't say? And all this time, I thought... " The Web page that you referred us to suggests that both Buddha and Krishna were Africans. Even if we were to agree that they both had black skin, how would this make them Africans? Millions of people from India have black skin and are not African. Quote: Martin Luther King Many people believe this was a "great" man. I do not. To me, it is not great, to beg your ex-master, for a room in his house. Me thinks it would have been much better to encouage Blacks to build their own house and "go for self". As an ex-slave, what would you do? Your simplistic view of MLK betrays you and proves that you really know nothing about history and reality. MLK stood up against real evil and he changed the world. Your disrespect of a really great Black Man is quite pathetic especially in light of your embrace of a mythical Black Jesus ( adding myth to myth).

05-23-2004, 05:59 PM	#60
beanpie Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: voston Posts: 699	The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000. Semitic SYLLABICATION: Se·mit·ic PRONUNCIATION: s-mtk ADJECTIVE: 1. Of or relating to the Semites or their languages or cultures. 2. Of, relating to, or constituting a subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic language group that includes Arabic, Hebrew, Amharic, and Aramaic.

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