aa5874

The HJ is a most SENSELESS proposition.

Once the NT and Church writings are examined the HJ becomes highly irrational.

When the Jesus stories are studied, it will be noticed that Jesus made predictions about the Fall of the Temple and his return to earth, but he did make a certain prediction that will clearly demonstrate that Jesus was more than likely just a story.

Let us assume for the sake of argument that Jesus was just human and was an apocalyptic character and that he taught his disciples the following:

1. I will be killed and be raised on the third day.

2. The Jewish Temple will be destroyed.

3. I will return after death sitting or standing on the right hand of Power within the present generation.

Now it is known that many of the words of Jesus about a future apocalypse are from the Septuagint or Hebrew Scripture, so the Jews and his disciples would have been very likely to be familiar with those predictions about the end of time.

So, the real immediate or first test for the veracity of Jesus is his teaching that he will be raised from the dead after the third day.

Jesus was executed after the Jews accused him of blasphemy, according to the story. His body vanished. Once he was human, it is expected that he did not resurrect.

After the third day, Jesus is known to be false prophet. His story of his own resurrection was a lie, his disciples have fled when he was arrested and Peter have denied ever knowing Jesus.

No-one will ever see Jesus alive again.

The whole Jesus sect is in shambles, in complete disarray. The Jesus story has come to an abrupt end.

Now, look at the Pauline writings.

The Pauline writers are not aware that Jesus has been probably deemed a false prophet since he failed to resurrect on the third day, and that the disciples have abandoned Jesus including Peter who has denied ever knowing or associated with Jesus.

The Pauline writers could not have been living in the same time zone as HJ.

The Pauline writers are claiming that without the resurrection of Jesus mankind would still be in their sins when it is known that the body of Jesus could not even be found at the burial site and has probably rotted.

The Pauline writers called Jesus their Lord and Saviour and Son of God, but the HJ of the NT was just another false prophet whose disciple had abandoned him.

How could the Pauline writers be so wrong? How could a supposed contemporary of Jesus not realise that Jesus was a false prophet, that his body had vanished and that his disciples were in hiding?

It is because the NT is just a compilation of non-historical accounts.

The HJ is a most Senseless proposition.

Once Jesus did exist and taught his disciples that he would be raised from the dead on the third day and that he was the son of the God of the Jews, he would have been deemed a false prophet since he did not resurrect and his execution for blasphemy would have been justified.

And as soon as it is realised that Jesus was a blasphemer and a false prophet then the Pauline writings become total fiction. No Jew would have been telling other Jews to abandon the Laws of God including circumcision to worship a blasphemer and a false prophet.

aa5874

The HJ is a most SENSELESS proposition.

The HJ theory has run into a brick wall.

Jews did not worship men as Gods.

Jews only worship God.

The disciples and Saul/Paul were Jews.

The disciples and Saul/Paul worshiped Jesus as a God.

Jesus was therefore known or was believed to have been ALWAYS a God.

Now, there is another brick wall for HJ.

Once Jesus was actually only a man why was the Pauline writer being a Jew making claims that Jesus was the son of God knowing full well that Jesus was just or could have only been a man?

Once Jesus was just a man the Pauline writers were just liars.

How is it that there is no indication that Peter did tell Paul that he had denied ever knowing or was associated with Jesus and that the body of Jesus had vanished and that they were hiding for fear of the Jews?

The Pauline writer seemed to be totally unaware of the supposed HJ and that the Jesus Christ movement is in a crisis.

All the thousands of people who used to be around Jesus must have heard about the failed resurrection.

HJ was a blasphemer and a false prophet. He falsely claimed he was a God and falsely claimed he would be raised from the dead.

But, the Pauline writer does not seem to know about HJ. The Pauline writer knew or heard from a Jesus that was raised from the dead to save mankind from sin. This resurrected Jesus told Paul about his Gospel of uncircumcision.

As far as the Pauline writer was concerned Jesus was a God.

The Pauline Jesus had the power to forgive sins and to abolish the Laws of God including circumcison and was coming back to earth a second time.

And Paul was supposed to be preaching about his resurrected Jesus since the days of Aretas although thousands of people, including the twelve disciples knew Jesus was just a man, a blasphemer and false prophet, and that his body had vanished.

It must be obvious that the NT is about an entity that was always considered a God or else the NT would not make any sense, and the Pauline writers would just have been known as blatant pathological liars.

The HJ is a most SENSELESS proposition since the Pauline writings demand that Jesus be a God.

Eliyahu

Is there anyone who can make the distinction between a historical Jewish man and a pagan paradigm?:banghead: If you are Jewish you probably just jerk your knee and say, "Doesn't matter anyway, he wasn't the Mashiach." If you are a Xtian you say, "How could he stick to Judaism since Paul said all of that was done away with." But to a Jew that wants to remove an almost 2000 year old lie told about another orthodox Jew it should matter.:devil3: And to an Xtian if they ever look at the actual history of the 1st century they would see that Judaism/Torah can not be outdated. The distinction between the man and the myth is detailed with multiple extant documents, archeology, and other scientific data. Check out the only orthodox Jewish website of the Netzarim only in Raanana, Israel.

aa5874

The unresolvable problem and unsurmountable hurdle for HJers is that Jesus could not have been known to be a mere man and still be worshiped as a God.

Jews do not worship men as Gods.

There simple could not be an HJ that was known to have a human father and human mother.

The embellishment theory used by HJers have been nullified, vaporised, since it is irrelevant whether or not Jesus did any miracles once he was known in Galilee and Jerusalem to be the product of human reproduction, his deification would be virtually ZERO.

In order for the Jewish Jesus character to be worshiped as a God by Jews there could NOT have been any known records that he was just a man anywhere in the habitable earth.

The HJ theory cannot be sustained. HJ has collasped.

ONLY MJ can be sustained. Jesus was always known, believed or intended to be a God.

aa5874

The HJ is a most SENSELESS proposition.

The more the NT and Church writings are examined the HJ vanishes into absurdity.

The NT writings and Church writings contain information that Jesus was the offspring of the Holy Ghost and a Virgin without a human father.

Now, if the NT did say in Matthew 1.18 and Luke 1.34-35 that Jesus was the human son of Joseph and Mary through normal human sexual reproduction then undoubtedly HJers would have used the NT to obliterate the MJ position.

If the Pauline writer did claim that he saw personally Jesus in Jerusalem before he died and that he was an apostle of this very man then MJ arguments would have been reduced to rubble and discarded as highly irrational or SENSELESS.

If Jesus believers and Church writers claimed that they worshipped men as Gods and encouraged people to worship men as God, then the MJ would be utterly destroyed.

Well, the authors of the NT did not write anything to help the HJ theory at all.

Instead of writing that Jesus the offspring of a man named Joseph and Mary, they claimed he was TRULY the offspring of the Holy Ghost. Instead of Paul claiming he saw Jesus before he died, Paul claimed he saw Jesus after he was already raised from the dead. And, instead of worshiping men as Gods, they wrote that men should not be worshipped as Gods.

The HJ has been obliterated.

The HJ is a most SENSELESS proposition.

arnoldo

Lots of mythical personas are based on historical persons. For example, King Arthur, Robin Hood, Santa Claus,etc are considered mythological but it doesn't follow that an actual historical person wasn't the basis for the myths. Even Alexander the Great was rumoured to have been the son of zeus, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he was a mythical person.

aa5874

It was not the rumor that Alexander the Great was the son of Zeus that made Alexander a figure of history. Whether or not there was such a rumor is irrelevant to the actual history of Alexander the Great.

Now, what about Jesus the offspring of the Holy Ghost? All we have are implausible, fictitious and questionable accounts about him.

What historical source are you going to produce to show that Jews and Jesus believers worshiped a man as a God contrary to their own beliefs.

I am not really discussing Santa Claus, Robin Hood, King Authur, etc.

Whether Santa Claus, Robin Hood, or King Aurthur actually existed cannot help the existence of the offspring of the Holy Ghost who was worshiped as a son of a God and the Creator by people who did not worship men as Gods.

Can you find a Jesus believer or a Jew of antiquity that worshiped Santa Claus, Robin Hood, King Aurthur, Alexander the Great, or a known human being as Gods and asked people to worship Santa Claus, Robin Hood, King Aurthur, Alexander the Great, or a known human as Gods?

This is the true description of Jesus Christ as found in the NT.

He was the child of the Holy Ghost and a Virgin who walked on water, transfigured, resurrected, ascended to heaven and was worshiped as a God by Paul, a Hebrew of Hebrews, who saw Jesus after it was resurrected.

The HJ has been obliterated.

arnoldo

Could the HJ exist as a theological construct in the minds of believers? If so, then the HJ has not been obliterated and in the words of C.S. Lewis.

aa5874

Yes! Yes!

Fantastic. Hooray! Well done!

That's it. You have just discovered HJ.

HJ exists in the MINDS of HJers.

HJ is theological, not historical. Great stuff.

arnoldo

HJ is theological and based on the life of a historical person. Josephus documents the historicity of this person in the following passage.