Mythra

Jeffrey: have you read Price's books "The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man" and "Deconstructing Jesus"? If so, I'd be interested to see you provide specific examples in which Price has skewed the data. (without simply providing references to other works)

Since this is a discussion board.

And then we could discuss whether the data was skewed or simply interpreted in an unorthodox manner. To me the word "skews" insinuates a certain intentional dishonesty. And that isn't the impression I get from reading Price.

No Robots

From his website biography:

He attends the Episcopal Church and keeps his mouth shut.

azidhak

Robert M. Price is a thrustworthy Lovecraft Scholar (or via: amazon.co.uk). (Sorry I just had to... )

Jeffrey Gibson

Will you please first sign your post so I know to whom I'm speaking?

Jeffrey

Mythra

Okay. I am not a scholar by any means. But I have both of these books, and I've read others (like Acharya S. or Freke and Gandy) where I felt that the data was definitely "skewed" to fit the framework of their argument.

I'm just (primarily) an interested observer here, who has a desire to learn and sort out the issues as best I can.

Michael Dravis

Mythra

Robert Price strikes me as quite similar to Elaine Pagels or Karen Armstrong. Well educated, but still able to convey their point of view in a way that the average person can understand.

It seems like any author is going to have some kind of bias, and it's unavoidable that this would find its way into the work. But I would draw the line between "trustworthy" and "untrustworthy" depending on whether it looked like the author intentionally was supressing facts that presented a differing POV or not. (such as when a christian apologist cites the Testamonium Flavianum without ever telling the reader that the authenticity of the passage is disputed amongst scholars)

Michael

Jeffrey Gibson

Lets have a look at what he says on Gospels and the ancient novel on pp. 214-225 in Deconstructing Jesus, shall we?

Jeffrey

gstafleu

OK, let's. But that is 11 pages, plus not all of us have the book handy. Could you perhaps, remembering that this is a discussion group, open the discussion by summarizing the problem(s) you have with what Price says on those pages?

Gerard Stafleu

Mythra

Alright. In that section Price discusses what he perceives to be parallels (I don't see Price make the direct claim of borrowing) between various other works and the gospels.

He cites passages from Chaereas and Callirhoe, Leucippe and Clitophon, Daphnis and Chloe, Satyricon, The Golden Ass, and other works.

I haven't read any of these ancient greek works, but I will admit that some of the parallel passages cited by Price seem a little strained.

On the other hand, I don't see where Price makes any claim of direct borrowing. More that the Jesus story follows a similar pattern.

Price says this on page 222:

As Mack notes (in company with John Dominic Crossan and others) the story of Jesus' arrest, humiliation, and crucifixion seems to be derived from a whole different cluster of ideas than that of an atonement theology. Rather, the story is probably intended as a typical story of the wise man who endures all the depredations of the wicked, to whose sin he is a living rebuke. Such a righteous one is always either saved in the nick of time or glorifed after death. It is easy to see Jesus' crucifixion account in these terms. And this is the sort of thing we swould expect to find in a commnity like the Q partisans, as Mack understands them. The Q community could easily have produced such a hero biography, such a novelistic aretalogy, issuing in the persecution and deliverance of their hero, the wise man/sophist Jesus, a question the Q sayings, after all, leave wide open.

If I am breaking the rules of this discussion board by providing a direct quote from the book, I'd appreciate being notified.

Michael

Mythra

It seems like a lot of what Price does is offer possibilities to be considered. Without making definitive pronouncements. He seems to say "what if" this is what happened, then provides information to supplement the argument.

I find his writing to be thought provoking, if nothing else.