Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Chris Weimer · 08-03-2006, 04:19 PM

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Originally Posted by aa5874

How do you know that your extra-biblical information is?

Mine is the same as yours.

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Macion's Jesus Christ was something like Superman. By the way, does Superman still have his day job, remember Superman actually was employed in the United States of America?

Except "Macion" believed in his Jesus Christ, while Stan Lee never did.

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Are you a better source than Wikipedia? I don't read Greek, I know a little Latin and no Hebrew, can I see your translation of ancient texts about Marcion in English?

Let me see - you know no Greek or Hebrew, and only a little Latin, while I'm doing a double major in Greek and Latin and have been studying Hebrew on my own for two years now...

Yeah, I think I'm a better judge than you.

And most of the ancient texts about Marcion should already be in English. If you have a problem with one, then come see me. Until then, have fun reading.

If you want some direction, try reading Tertullian first. You can find it on Roger Pearse's excellent website.

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I have already told you, I can find no verifiable evidence to support the historicity of Jesus Christ, so I regard him as fiction. I still have nothing, true, well said.

Can you find verifiable evidence to support the historicity of the Egyptian in Josephus?

Chris Weimer · 08-03-2006, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

You have created your own problems, you seem to be able to know what other people think. This thread is not about 'All or Nothing' it is about MJ not accepted by professional historians, not whether the Bible is completely true or completely false.

I say MJ, what do you say? And stop worrying about what other people think.

Emphasis mine.

And you're wrong. Professionals overwhelmingly agree with an HJ.

jjramsey · 08-03-2006, 05:27 PM

[silly tangent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

Except "Macion" believed in his Jesus Christ, while Stan Lee never did.

Superman was the brainchild of Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster, not Stan Lee.

[/silly tangent]

Biff the unclean · 08-03-2006, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

Professionals overwhelmingly agree with an HJ.

And what HJ is it that they agree on?
I know when they talk about an historic King Arthur or an historic Robin Hood they have an actual historic fellow that they point at and say 'he's the one the character in the book is based on.' I wasn't aware that there was any such individual to justify an HJ claim.

Biff the unclean · 08-03-2006, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Are you a better source than Wikipedia?

Is there a worse source than Wikipedia? Anyone can post anything there.

aa5874 · 08-03-2006, 05:44 PM

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Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

Except "Macion" believed in his Jesus Christ, while Stan Lee never did.

Only belief can bring Jesus Christ to life.

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Let me see - you know no Greek or Hebrew, and only a little Latin, while I'm doing a double major in Greek and Latin and have been studying Hebrew on my own for two years now...

I hope you find some ancient manuscripts to show, without doubt, that Jesus is mythical.

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Yeah, I think I'm a better judge than you.

Yeah, Am I in your courtroom?

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Can you find verifiable evidence to support the historicity of the Egyptian in Josephus?

Evidence for Jesus Christ anyone?

Chris Weimer · 08-03-2006, 05:54 PM

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Originally Posted by jjramsey

Superman was the brainchild of Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster, not Stan Lee.

Oh right, mea culpa.

Chris Weimer · 08-03-2006, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Only belief can bring Jesus Christ to life.

No, not even belief can bring a dead man back to life. You haven't converted, have you?

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I hope you find some ancient manuscripts to show, without doubt, that Jesus is mythical.

Who, what, where, when, why, and how, please.

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Yeah, Am I in your courtroom?

Don't make me laugh.

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Evidence for Jesus Christ anyone?

Try reading the Bible, for starters.

Biff the unclean · 08-03-2006, 06:11 PM

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Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

Try reading the Bible, for starters.

Tried it. I found the retelling of a bunch of Hellenistic and Persian myths and that's it. An HJ would have had these myths attributed to him, but where's the HJ they attributed them to? All I see are myths with the name of the mythical god/demigod changed.

JAK1 · 08-03-2006, 06:15 PM

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Originally Posted by jjramsey

For the scholars who are committed Christians, yes, that would be an issue, especially for those scholars whose Christian beliefs are not so heretical as to deny things like the resurrection. Ehrman, though, is an agnostic.

I would not be so quick to dismiss the professional scholars, especially since they have been treating the Bible critically for quite some time now.

An agnostic is more objective than a committed Christian. In fact, a Christian scholar is an oxymoron. When looking at religious myths concocted and revised through translation, inclusion, exclusion, etc., an agnostic is far superior as a scholar than someone/anyone indoctrinated into some form of the religion.

JAK

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