Newton's Cat

Paul wasn't a Christian:

Remove the interpolated references to Jesus from Romans and you get:

Paul, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures, to all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father.

First, I thank my God for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world. For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers; making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you. For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established; that is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.

Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, but was let hitherto, that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles. I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise. So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

... and so on all the way through Romans.

In 71 ad the Emperor Vespasian sent people to investigate a man who was "travelling through the Greek islands preaching about God". They reported that he was "harmless".

Christianity came into being as a cult superimposed upon the genuinely benevolent writings of Paul.

There is a 2nd century Roman play about a religion that, whilst its founder was alive, was perfectly acceptable to the authorities - but when the founder died a single individual took over, altered the texts and wrote others of his own.

Christianity, as we have it today, shows evidence that it came into existence in the 130s ad.

Now try looking at I Corinthians 14, 34-36 (a startlingly mysogynist statement). These verses are interpolations. The continuation from verse 33 is verse 37. It becomes obvious when you read it through a few times. Also, verse 36 is a "challenging" response to verses 34-35 ... possibly by a woman.

The New Testament is a maddeningly complex "Holy Fraud".

So is the Koran.

spin

I've asked you this before: what are your objective criteria for discerning interpolations?


spin

TonyN

Vatican archaeologists find tomb believed to be that of Apostle Paul

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religio...l_x.htm?csp=34


ROME (AP) — Vatican archaeologists have unearthed a sarcophagus believed to contain the remains of the Apostle Paul that had been buried beneath Rome's second largest basilica.

The sarcophagus, which dates back to at least A.D. 390, has been the subject of an extended excavation that began in 2002 and was completed last month, the project's head said this week.

<snip for copyright>

spin

Please read the archives before repeating things. (RTFA.)


spin

TonyN

No.

spin

The topic has been discussed before. What else do you want to bring to the forum?


spin

The Admiral

I wonder what books Paul was reffering to when he mentioned the gospels? Were what we today know as the gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, yet written in Paul's time.

The Admiral

Gorit Maqueda

I think he never mentioned any gospel (any book of that title). He only mentioned the gospel of God, i.e., the good news he found reading the OT and being inspired by God.

Newton's Cat

It is interesting that Simon of Cyrene, the guy who carried Jesus' cross, is described as having two sons, Alexander and Rufus. The Jewish revolt against the Romans led by Simon bar Kochba (who was claimed to be the Messiah by some supporters) around 130 ad was preceeded by a major revolt in 116 ad in Cyrene and the later revolt in Israel can be seen as a continuation of this. This Simon had a son, Rufus, who carried on the resistance after Simon's death. There is other evidence that points to the possibility that the gospels were not written until well into the 2nd century ... at the very least it seems that, if they did exist at a much earlier date, then material relating to events well into the 2nd century was added.

I "see" Paul as a pre-Christian religious figure ... possibly of some consequence ... and a person or people who was/were responsible for the founding of Christianity as we know it today who used, and corrupted, his writings.

Who ... was ... Paul?

Perhaps history knows him by a different name?

The only way I can understand the New Testament's early texts is to assume that someone calculatedly went through them, altering them and adding to them, in order to create a fictitious history of the spread of Christianity in the 1st century ad.

As for Jesus Christ ... there never was such a character outside of the inventive mind of whoever dreamed him up.

So ... there was Paul (who I perceive to be a very altruistic man) ... and someone rather similar to people like Joseph Smith, and other recent cult founders.

spin

There is no reason to believe that Paul was referring to written works. A gospel was "good news", which obviously could be oral doctrine.


spin