Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 10-08-2009, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

...
Hellenistic? Not a single hint of Jewish storytelling? Weird.

I just read the article, and I don't see where Hoffman denied that there were any Jewish elements in the gospels. They are written in Greek and follow the pattern of Hellenistic literature, probably because they are a product of a Hellenistic Jewish society.

This is a minor observation in a short essay that makes no claims about whether Jesus existed or exactly how Jewish he was. Could you rein in your hobbyhorse?

No Robots · 10-08-2009, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Could you rein in your hobbyhorse?

Sure. Got anything else to say about the essay?

dog-on · 10-08-2009, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog-on

Possibly because it misses the giant elephant.

Avoid mention of the Jewish background of the NT by asserting that its central figure is fictional? Curiouser and curiouser. I mean, you wouldn't say that, because Hamlet is a fictional character, "Hamlet" is not English literature, now would you?

The only thing Jewish about them is the setting.

Toto · 10-08-2009, 10:54 AM

What is there to say? Hoffman has resigned from the project and burned a few bridges on his way out. There is nothing new in this essay, except that he pronounces the historical evidence insufficient to show whether Jesus existed or not, and not even worth discussing.

Read his blog. He's given up on Paul Kurtz, secular humanism, protesting against blasphemy laws, all his old friends. He's looking for new political associations.

Hoffman is a very intelligent, humanistic academic. But I don't know where he's going with this.

No Robots · 10-08-2009, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

What is there to say?

Well, what you have to say seems pretty interesting and cogent.

Quote:

Hoffman is a very intelligent, humanistic academic. But I don't know where he's going with this.

Yeah, but that's where my hobbyhorse comes in. You have said to me over and over that "the Jewish Jesus" is just an academic fad. I'm interested in Hoffmann because he seems to be avoiding this "fad." Maybe he is an example of academe trying to get away from this, trying once again to revive, "the ultimate Western fantasy - that Christ had not, in fact, been a Jew" (Colonial Desire: Hybridity in Theory, Culture, and Race / Robert Young, p. 85).

Toto · 10-08-2009, 11:30 AM

Hoffman doesn't believe that the historical Jesus can be recovered, if he even existed. How would this help make Jesus either Jewish or not Jewish?

gdeering · 10-08-2009, 11:48 AM

Dear No Robots,

In your opinion, does the NT have to be only Jewish or only Hellenic ?

Gregg

andrewcriddle · 10-08-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squiz

Threnody: Rethinking the Thinking behind The Jesus Project
by R. Joseph Hoffman

http://www.bibleinterp.com/opeds/hoffman1044.shtml

It is an interesting article.
It is maybe a little too dismissive of MR James.

Andrew Criddle

No Robots · 10-08-2009, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Hoffman doesn't believe that the historical Jesus can be recovered, if he even existed. How would this help make Jesus either Jewish or not Jewish?

Well, if that is his position than we still have to deal with what could be called the penultimate Western fantasy--that the NT is not, in fact, Jewish.

No Robots · 10-08-2009, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdeering

In your opinion, does the NT have to be only Jewish or only Hellenic ?

I think it has to be seen as essentially Jewish, and then any Hellenic elements have to be examined from that perspective.

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10-08-2009, 10:54 AM	#14
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	What is there to say? Hoffman has resigned from the project and burned a few bridges on his way out. There is nothing new in this essay, except that he pronounces the historical evidence insufficient to show whether Jesus existed or not, and not even worth discussing. Read his blog. He's given up on Paul Kurtz, secular humanism, protesting against blasphemy laws, all his old friends. He's looking for new political associations. Hoffman is a very intelligent, humanistic academic. But I don't know where he's going with this.

10-08-2009, 11:30 AM	#16
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Hoffman doesn't believe that the historical Jesus can be recovered, if he even existed. How would this help make Jesus either Jewish or not Jewish?

10-08-2009, 11:48 AM	#17
gdeering Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 237	Dear No Robots, In your opinion, does the NT have to be only Jewish or only Hellenic ? Gregg

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