dr lazer blast

nice strawman fallacy, the joy is in the form of hope which comes from not seeing the body, the joy does not come from hearing he is alive and that is plausible.


arguments from authority are logically fallacious. Its called informal logic, look it up.

Scripture X says this
How do you know?
because this pastor said so.

That is exactly what you are doing and that is fallacious, the funny thing is that even if it were true it is still plausible that mary came to peter talking about the dead body of Jesus.
another fallacy, you're rackin em up. The joyful response in matthew is in the form of hope which comes from finding the empty tomb.



She can still have hope and be worried about where the body is.


emoticons are not a valid form of criticism try again.
emoticons and personal interpretations of the scripture are not a valid criticism when it comes to this challenge, try again, especially when you assert there is no hope because she is crying. Hope and crying are not incompatible despite your previous assertions.

you have no found yourself once again back at square 1, your fallacious logic, personal interpretations of scripture or emoticons are not valid criticisms, basically you have no case and you just keep repeating the same fallacies over and over and giving the same personal interpretations of scripture as if that is supposed to somehow contradict my narrative lol. sad really.

thentian

Heh! That possibility hadn't even occurred to me! Well, if you can find a bible commentary on any christian site that thinks they remembered what the angel said, then I'll concede that Luke isn't contradicting Mark here!

jab

I think you are ignoring the role that emotional conviction plays in belief and disbelief. Just as it plays in falling in love with or really disliking someone. d/l/b seems to be saying that the story and concept of Christ's death as part of God's plan so moved him as something that a true God would do that he being investigating Christianity and found other reasons to believe.

All I can say is that one of the reasons I (and George Bernard Shaw) disbelieve is the disgust we feel for the barbarbic story of an omnipotent Father conniving at his own Son's crucifixion.

jab

"It is a desire"--What do you mean? The quoted passage is more accurately described as an imperative (the form of the main verb), or more colloquially as a command or piece of advice.

sschlichter

I probably could find one, but not with a clean conscience because I tend to agree that they were remembering jesus' sayings.

However, I do not see Mark and Luke in contradiction. I think the issue is between Matthew and Mark. There is no reason in Luke to beleive that what they beleived about Jesus' sayings is immediate so your would-be concession would not really be of much value.

thentian

Well, I originally picked Mark vs Matthew at this spot as the first glaring contradiction to confront dlb with, so OK, I guess!

I think it is too bad that this topic has never gotten past this and the fear/joy discussion between dlb and Amaleq, because I think there are more interesting contradictions to discuss later on. For example, what about Matthew 28: 8-10 versus John 20: 1-2 ? Especially when the account has to include what was said by whom when and where as the rules of the challenge prescribes:

(Matthew 28: 8-10) "So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9Suddenly Jesus met them. "Greetings," he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. 10Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me.""

(John 20: 1-2) "Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance. 2So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved, and said, "They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don't know where they have put him!"

Of course, John has a meeting between Jesus and Mary (20:11), but this is after Peter has been told about the empty grave and been to inspect it, while Matthew has all the women meeting Jesus while on the way to tell Peter.

James Brown

We do? Would that be just like we know about the secret conversation amongst the Pharisees when they cooked up the story about the disciples stealing Jesus' body? Just like we know what Jesus prayed in the Garden even though the only possible eyewitnesses were asleep at the time? Just like we know about the secret conversation between the Maji and Herod?

Sounds to me like an omniscient narrator, a common literary device in fiction.

jab

Whoaaa, Nellie!! Hold on there, gulp, um, where to begin?--oh, I give up on someone who is so finicky about chronology in his earlier posts and then pulls this time-warping statement out.

sschlichter

If Matt 28:9 happens after verse 8, then the most literal reading is to say that this is after they ran and told the disciples, and I am suggesting it is after John 20:10. John 20:11-18 is the same occurrence as Matt 28:9.

I see the version you are using says suddenly, but I do not know where the suddenly is coming from. A literal translation would be more like: 'and, behold, Jesus met them' or 'then Jesus met them' but there is nothing that dictates it had to be sudden. As far as the women were concerned, this was the next thing for them and that is why Matthew put it there. Mary M, and other women ran and told the disciples (after they got over their fear that occurred in Mark 16:8, of course) and followed them back to the tomb, John got their first, peter caught up and went in, then John beleived first, then they went home. the women stayed and then Matt 28:9, John 20:11-18

It has similar pieces that seem to be the same conversation as John 20:16-18; as well as Mark 16:9-11

* initial greeting (matt 28:9, John 20:16)
* they hold on to his feet, he says do not touch me (Matt 28:9, John 20:17)
* go and tell my brothers (matt 28:10, john 20:17)

~Steve

sschlichter

well, I take the 'we' back. I do, as I am sure that most in this discussion do.