Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Phlox Pyros · 03-29-2006, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julian

Could someone correct my Greek here? I am translating the third τιτλος which reads περι των ιαθεντων απο ποικιλων νοσων as 'About the healings of various diseases.' Is that right?

Julian

Yes. On the previous page of this thread, my translation is different in only two ways...I left the plural off healings and used illnesses instead of diseases. I believe yours is fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phlox Pyros

about the healing from various illnesses

If I can find any time, I hope to get back to participating. Perhaps we could create a new thread to go over other things...scribal habits we notice, the variations (as you've already been doing), or illustrations of the various reasons for the variations (eg. haplography, dittography, ... , etc.).

Julian · 03-29-2006, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phlox Pyros

If I can find any time, I hope to get back to participating. Perhaps we could create a new thread to go over other things...scribal habits we notice, the variations (as you've already been doing), or illustrations of the various reasons for the variations (eg. haplography, dittography, ... , etc.).

I have started work on a scribal error and corrections web page. I found an error in Swanson's Gospel of Mark.

I think it would make more sense to continue in this thread, keep it all together, as it were.

Julian

S.C.Carlson · 03-29-2006, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julian

I have started work on a scribal error and corrections web page. I found an error in Swanson's Gospel of Mark.

Please note that there is a Reuben Swanson errata list. If you find an error not already on the list, convey it to Wieland.

Stephen

Phlox Pyros · 03-29-2006, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

Thank you Phlox for taking the time to lay this out with images. It really was necessary to do it like that for me to see how this worked.

No problem. Glad it helped. It helped me to go through it myself.

Quote:

What is interesting is the statement in the preface that a different symbol was used in other gospels. This would be most unusual, if the kephalaia and the marks were anything but copied from the parent manuscript. Can we therefore infer that Alexandrinus (or an ancestor of it) was copied from rolls, some of which used the Z and others the other symbol?

That is an interesting question. I think there are at least two possibilities: (1) the one that you suggest and (2) that these different marks are simply the style used by the secondary scribe who wrote the other books that contain the different marks (I can't remember for sure, but I think this second possibility might have been mentioned in the introduction).

Your theory is certainly seems plausible, however.

Quote:

Likewise the absence of the overscore is explicable if the scribe was copying the kephalia marks from the parent manuscript -- he may just have forgot -- but less so if someone is going through afterwards adding them in.

Definitely. I think this might have been the case, but I still find it strange that this happened so early in the manuscript when one would have expected either scribe to be relatively fresh at his task.

Phlox Pyros · 03-29-2006, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julian

Okay, I figured out the Swanson EC which should have been obvious based on prior posts. He is showing the lookup. In GMark in Cannon 2 we find GMark 10 (hence the iota) and there we find GLuke 32 and GMatthew 21 and nothing in GJohn, all duly noted in Swanson.

Thanks. Surprisingly, I could not find any specific explanation about these notes in Swanson. I suspected something like what you mention, but your confirmation and deeper analysis is helpful.

Quote:

We do see a variation, however. There are three listings of lookups. As far as I can see the first two are identical, the last one differs by making GLuke look to 39 (λθ). I assume that it is MS 118 and that the tables that accompany that volume are faulty? Or that the correct place in GLuke is actually marked incorrectly as λθ or something similar. And why show M as a separate entry when it look sidentical to the first?

Good questions. It might be good to find other passages where there is some variation like this for MSS that we can find online. That will help us understand what the difference is.

Phlox Pyros · 03-29-2006, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julian

I made a quick little webpage about some of the things we have discussed here. I am sure that it will grow in time, this is only the first step. I would appreciate and comments, corrections, suggestions, etc. Here it is:

www.crownschoice.com/tc001

Julian

P.S. Phlox and Buster, if you guys want your real names on there, let me know what they are.

Nice webpage. I look forward to more.

The names as you have them (including Phlox Pyros) are fine by me. Thanks for the credit.

Julian · 03-31-2006, 06:27 AM

I made a mistake earlier which I have since figured out. I thought that the overscore stroke at the end of a line meant that it continued on the next line. It turns out, however, that the overscore stroke at the end of a line indicates the leter N (nu). Does anyone have any idea why they would use this instead of simply writing out the letter?

For a picture, check out my website and look at the closeup of the κεφαλαια for the third entry. That stroke at the end is actually a N.

Julian

Roger Pearse · 03-31-2006, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julian

I made a quick little webpage about some of the things we have discussed here. I am sure that it will grow in time, this is only the first step. I would appreciate and comments, corrections, suggestions, etc. Here it is:

www.crownschoice.com/tc001

You state there that "The κεφαλαια are the list of numbers preceeding each of the τιτλοι." I'm not sure that this is so. The titloi are the pieces of text at the top of each column. A kephalaion is an entry in that table at the start of Mark, numeral and text. The text of a kephalaion does not correspond to a titlos, necessarily.

Or have *I* misunderstood? Your explanation seems very plausible to me!

Nice page, by the way.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Buster Daily · 03-31-2006, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phlox Pyros

Nice webpage. I look forward to more.

The names as you have them (including Phlox Pyros) are fine by me. Thanks for the credit.

Wow. I just got back to this thread after not reading for a few days. That's an attractive page Julian has put together. No real names for me. Too many fundies in the family. This weekend will be busy, but I hope to contribute to the topic of Codex A trivia as time permits.

Buster Daily · 03-31-2006, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julian

I made a mistake earlier which I have since figured out. I thought that the overscore stroke at the end of a line meant that it continued on the next line. It turns out, however, that the overscore stroke at the end of a line indicates the leter N (nu). Does anyone have any idea why they would use this instead of simply writing out the letter?

For a picture, check out my website and look at the closeup of the κεφαλαια for the third entry. That stroke at the end is actually a N.

Julian

I'm working on a theory. Some words get ν added to them when they end a sentence or come before a vowel. Perhaps ending a line but not a sentence is an ambiguous case and so the scribe gives a half-nu. I am struggling with the greek in question to see what might be the case. I'm posting my theory fast so that I don't get scooped.

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03-31-2006, 06:27 AM	#97
Julian Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Washington, DC (formerly Denmark) Posts: 3,789	I made a mistake earlier which I have since figured out. I thought that the overscore stroke at the end of a line meant that it continued on the next line. It turns out, however, that the overscore stroke at the end of a line indicates the leter N (nu). Does anyone have any idea why they would use this instead of simply writing out the letter? For a picture, check out my website and look at the closeup of the κεφαλαια for the third entry. That stroke at the end is actually a N. Julian

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