aa5874

It is futility to argue or suggest that Mark wrote something that no-one can find.

And what if the introduction show that Mark wrote in the 4th century?

Only the available information can be used to come to a determination, whenever new information surfaces then one's conclusion can be altered if necessary.

Minimalist

Thanks for that clarification, Pete.

mountainman

Surely "Papias" is just the infamous Eusebius looking for another name to hang more early christian tinsel upon.

In theories of mathematics, topology and geometry there are limits and bounds which are often able to be expressed as the limiting conditions.

At one end of the vast one dimensional anonymity called "Christian Origins" we have the Terminus A Quo Historical Jesus Christ being presented by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John with their britches on, and Paul with his mono-eyebrow on.

At the other end of this same one dimensional realm of possibilities we have the fourth century terminus ad quiem of Hans Eusebius Anderson and his sponsor.

Somewhere between these two limits the historical truth is waiting to be revealed by ancient historians and technological advancements.

Huon

Acts Chapter 12, 12 :
And when he realized this, he (Peter) went to the house of Mary, the mother of John who was also called Mark, where many were gathered together and were praying.

Acts Chapter 12, 25 :
And Barnabas and Saul returned from Jerusalem, having fulfilled their mission, taking with them John who was surnamed Mark.

Acts Chapter 13, 2-5 :
2 And as they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Ghost said to them: Set apart for me Saul and Barnabas, for the work to which I have called them.
3 Then when they had fasted and prayed and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.
4 So they, being sent out by the Holy Ghost, they went down to Seleucia: and from there they sailed to Cyprus.
5 And when they reached Salamis, they began to proclaim the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews. And they had John also as their helper.

Acts Chapter 13, 13 :
Now Paul and his companions put out to sea from Paphos and came to Perga in Pamphylia; but John left them and returned to Jerusalem.

Acts Chapter 15, 35-39 :
35 But Paul and Barnabas stayed in Antioch, teaching and preaching with many others also, the word of the Lord.
36 After some days Paul said to Barnabas, "Let us return and visit the brethren in every city in which we proclaimed the word of the Lord, and see how they are."
37 Barnabas wanted to take John, called Mark, along with them also.
38 But Paul kept insisting that they should not take him along who had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not gone with them to the work.
39 And there occurred such a sharp disagreement that they separated from one another, and Barnabas took Mark with him and sailed away to Cyprus.

Colossians Chapter 4, 10 :
Aristarchus, my fellow prisoner, saluteth you: and Mark, the cousin (ho anepsios) of Barnabas, touching whom you have received commandments. If he come unto you, receive him.

2 Timothy Chapter 4, 11 :
Only Luke is with me. Take Mark and bring him with thee: for he is profitable to me for the ministry.

Philemon 24 :
Mark, Aristarchus, Demas and Luke, my fellow labourers.

1 Peter Chapter 1, 1 : (the author is unlikely to have been the apostle Peter)
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers dispersed through Pontus, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, elect,

1 Peter Chapter 5, 13 :
The church that is in Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you. And so doth my son, Mark.

Steven Carr

I don't understand that post.

Mark was the most common male name in the Empire. Every Tom, Dick and Harry was called Mark.

So why did Papias not mention more than his name?

It is like saying Bob wrote the first biography of JFK. You would think Bob would get better billing rather than a mere mention of his name.

Huon

Bob Kennedy ?

Tigers!

Philippians 2:3
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.

Huon

All the quotes I have gathered from Acts in my post #14 seem to show this :

Peter knew the mother of John-Mark.
Barnabas was the cousin of Mark.
Paul (Saul) knew Barnabas. They went to Seleucia, and later, to Salamis (Cyprus).
Mark, cousin of Barnabas, belonged to their group, as a "helper".
Paul and his group went to Perga in Pamphylia, but Mark did not follow them, and went back to the group of Peter, in Jerusalem. For this reason, at least, Paul was angry against Mark.
Later, Paul and Barnabas disagreed sharply. (Why, no explanation). Barnabas left Paul, and went back to Cyprus, with Mark.

I would say that the author of Acts had not much consideration for Mark the "helper" (in french, we would say "the fifth wheel of the cart").

aa5874

But, Acts of the Apostles is a work of fiction and cannot be corroborated at all with regards to any event about Jesus, the disciples and Saul/Paul.

The author of Acts claimed the disciples actually witnessed events that never occurred, and also participated in the fiction itself.

It must be noted that Acts of the Apostles was written as though the author wrote before the supposed deaths of Peter and Paul, during the time of Nero, yet it has been deduced that Acts was written well after the time of Nero.

Also, there is no information in Acts of the Apostles that the character called Mark wrote a gospel or wrote anything regarded as sacred scripture.

bacht

Yes, but Luke acknowledges that he is not the first to write a gospel account:

Luke 1.1-4
Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile a narrative of the things which have been accomplished among us, just as they were delivered to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word, it seemed good to me also, having followed all things closely for some time past, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, that you may know the truth concerning the things of which you have been informed.